Gen 2 and transitional Knock

[larrym]

So I have been playing with the Gen 2 and really like the features and tune ability it gives.
I use the Extender G chip and have been adjusting the timing to get peak performance and drive ability.

I have the timing down in the lower rpms to try and eliminate some transitional knock I can here it knock if I mash throttle from a dead stop or a roll at about 30 to 40 mph. I have the alky coming on at 1 PSI to try and eliminate it but the only thing that curbs it is less timing 17 degrees until I get to about 3000 rpm then I ramp it up to 22 degrees.
The turbo spools really quick so the early alky spray does not seem to affect performance.

My old chip was burned for 25 and 23 degrees and I didn't see much if any transitional knock.

Am I approaching this properly?
I'm not too concerned about the lower timing down low should help me brake boost at the track, but when I use the lean cruise on the hwy it prefers more timing.

 

[turbo nasty]

How old is your alky pump?

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[larrym]

2 years old it will bog the motor if I hit the prime button bet I could stall it of I left it on long enough. The wide band shows 10.0 and returns to what I have the correction set to.
Does not appear lean I have the EGR blocked.
Doesn't knock if I roll into it.

 

[turbo nasty]

I have the alky coming on at 1 PSI to try and eliminate it but the only thing that curbs it is less timing 17 degrees until I get to about 3000 rpm then I ramp it up to 22 degrees.

So in first and second gear at 3000 rpm and up you are getting 24 total degrees if extender chip is in its default program.

Have you verified risen rate fuel PSI with a known good gauge?

The test button doesnt mimic full map voltage at elevated boost levels. Ive had leaky or weak pumps bog the motor just fine at idle. Is your meth coming from a supplier that uses a pump only for methanol or are you using virgin meth with no lube?

So when you say roll into it is that from what speed/gear/rpm?

Like 15 mph hour roll then stab it vs. a stand still launch?

Plug gap?

Hold on.....I just noticed this in your signature...."Cobbled together Alcohol Injection"

What D?

 

[larrym]

Cooling Mist controller with a Devils Own pump AEM nozzle. The AEM controller packed it in after a year then the pump a year after that. If I roll into it in drive I get no knock with the timing up. With the timing dialed back in the lower rpm it seems fine from a 15 mph roll.
So the timing displayed on the gen2 when driving is not the true timing?

 

[larrym]

I use methol hydrate no lube the pump is supposed to be able to tolerate straight meth it has a special diaphragm.
The gap is a little tight what do you recommend I will try anything.

 

[larrym]

Hood mount fuel pressure gauge good pressure it does go rich even with the knock. Using 94 octane.

 

[turbo nasty]

Cooling Mist controller with a Devils Own pump AEM nozzle. The AEM controller packed it in after a year then the pump a year after that. If I roll into it in drive I get no knock with the timing up. With the timing dialed back in the lower rpm it seems fine from a 15 mph roll.
So the timing displayed on the gen2 when driving is not the true timing?

You obvoiusly havent read the manuals for the chip a GEN2 and that the default programing in the ext chip adds 2 degrees to the base timing set in the translator in first and second gear.

Here it is right outta the ext G chip manual
Low Gear WOT Spark. Spark advance in first and second gears at WOT can be programmed to be higher than in 3rd and 4th.
Default setting for Parameter 10 is8which is 2 degrees additional advance. This parameter is adjustable from zeroadditional degrees advance, to 4 degrees additional.




From what you are saying is that with timing pulled back it does NOT knock from 15 mph...thats first and second gear timing. So when you have it set to to say 18 on the gen 2 and you go WOT then you are running 20 degrees of timing in first and second with eth chip in default or up to plus 4 degrees if youve programmed it higher in the chip.

Gonna be honest here.......you need to read up on what your chip and what the gen 2 programming is doing and how things are affecting what. You should know how to program and change all the settings and what its doing. If not then the GEN2 is worthless to you and just going to cause damge.
I would do a hard reset on the and GEN2 and then reset up everything once you understand how things are jiving.

And IMO a cobbled up alky setup is playing with a hand grenade with the pin pulled. Get a system that is designed to work together.

The fact that you are asking me if the timing on the GEN2 is the timing the engine is seeing "driving around" is not good.

Right out of the GEN2 manual

Spark WOT: Adjust WOT (Wide Open Throttle) spark advance

Base timing at cruise and low load is going to be different than WOT or just part throttle.

Your wallet and engine will thank you if you do some research on the products you have and basics on how igntion timing works in a engine.

Heres a link to the manuals http://www.fullthrottletech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=65

The GEN2 is a advance tuning tool. You may want to just get a regular alky chip and regular translator and keep it simple.

 

[turbo nasty]

Hood mount fuel pressure gauge good pressure it does go rich even with the knock. Using 94 octane.

Not rich....the fuel PSI at WOT is base fuel psi added to total Manifold PSI. Homework time

 

[larrym]

Thanks for the insight trying to get to the bottom of this and understand it.
The only changes I have made to the chip is to enable lean cruise and loop idle.
On the sensor monitor page of the gen2 I watched the timing go up and down at the preset rpms at mid load not wot
My base fuel pressure is set for 45 psi line off at 20 psi of boost I see 65 plus.
I have not cranked the boost past 20 and don't plan to until I'm confident with the tune and set up.
The cooling mist controller is a good unit IMO and this setup worked well for me in the past.
I was under the impression I had to add timing in first and second at the chip I did not realize it was pre programmed in.

 

[TurboBuRick]

1st and 2nd gear wot timing is pre programmed into the chip. From there you can adjust up or down with the chip.

3rd gear is done with the gen2.

The way to test n tune is to do 3rd gear pulls. Get up to around 45 mph then lay into it. You don't want it to down shift. You want a clean pull in high gear. Thats when the motor is under most load and when real knock will occur.

Once the car is tuned in third with no knock you can disregard any knock in lower gears. It's not real.

Rick

 

[turbo nasty]

1st and 2nd gear wot timing is pre programmed into the chip. From there you can adjust up or down with the chip.

3rd gear is done with the gen2.

The way to test n tune is to do 3rd gear pulls. Get up to around 45 mph then lay into it. You don't want it to down shift. You want a clean pull in high gear. Thats when the motor is under most load and when real knock will occur.

Once the car is tuned in third with no knock you can disregard any knock in lower gears. It's not real.

Rick

Not quite...... WOT base spark advance for all gears is set by GEN2 the parameters for WOT lo gear spk control in the chip is simply going to add or be the same as whatever you decide to set in the GEN2 (Default for the GeEN2 is 15 degrees). Default in the chip is plus 2 degrees with the capability to add up to 4 or just be the same as the GEN2.

 

[larrym]

Thanks again TN and thanks Rick

I will test my alky pump and controller to ensure they are both working properly.
When roll into it in drive bringing the boost up gradually I don't see any knock. If I mash it which is hard to replicate in drive I get some knock I can actually hear and see on the knock gauge.
Would a bad injector show these symptoms? The wide bad indicates lots of fuel could 1 cylinder be lean enough to cause this? I figured if it was a bad injector the problem would be there all the time.

I will pull the plugs and have a look at them too
And double check the gap.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Not quite...... WOT base spark advance for all gears is set by GEN2 the parameters for WOT lo gear spk control in the chip is simply going to add or be the same as whatever you decide to set in the GEN2 (Default for the GeEN2 is 15 degrees). Default in the chip is plus 2 degrees with the capability to add up to 4 or just be the same as the GEN2.

10/4 You are right.