I have a 89 tta the car was tuned to 414rwhp and 428rwtq, it's a short filled block, arp on the rods and mains. Billet h/r cam, te61, aftermarket intercooler. I installed a set of champion ported heads and intake and 70mm throttle body, had all the exhaust and turbo coated, Harland sharp 1.65, and a alky kit. I have got the car back to were it will idle at 900 rpm @ 12.8-13.0:1. I now need to get into the ve table. Need help getting a solid tune in the car before I put high psi and alky to it. The roads are melting off here so hope fully I can get some logging done on the car. I used the ve estimator with the specs from champion and the dropped the af ratio from 16:1 to 10:1. The car will rev right up but stalls when you get out of it. Any help, tips and advice is appreciated.
Gen 7 users, I need help ve table
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You need to adjust the throttle follower menu higher so when you left off the gas it holds the iac open a bit more. If your fed up you can always go to a TT chip, and save your self years of hedache
LOL seriously Norbs, I can entertain just about any argument comparing the pros and cons of an engine mgt systems compared to a Gen 7, but proposing a mid 80's ECM and chip are a step forward is ridiculous.
You are correct about the throttle follower BUT my guess is his VE table is probably a mess
The VE table estimator usually doesn't work that well on a Buick but can get you in the ball park. Make sure you scale it correctly.
I agree with you Chris for an all out race car yes there are benefits, but for a street car trying to get the best mpg around town the old technology works not bad with the new chips out and still have good WOT results . This is due to fuel enleanment, fuel cutoff, on decel and lean cruise mode and highway spark advance, TCC lockup modes based on mph and the maf compensating for temperature and humidity for you. The DFI does not have alot of those features in the programming. The knock retard feature is no better than the stock computer either.
There are 63 tables to adjust in the DFI with the pro-key, do you think an average guy is going to get that worked out? I couldn't.
The TT wide band chip uses the stock 02 sensor and BLM's for light cruising, and on boost the maf gets out of the picture around 240 grams, and the wideband adjusts upt to -15 to +33% fuel. However it still has issues as the base fueling is set on a certain boost level, so if your messing with the boost you have to dial the chip in closer so its not too far out of the boundary. Datalogging 54 parmeters @18 fps with the power logger is no slouch either. Compared to 6 on the DFI.
For a race car an aftermarket is great because you have more fuel control in the maf at different boost/rpm points, individual cyl fuel and timing control, and injector sync control, launch and nitrous, etc, but I think you don;t need this stuff at 400 hp?
I like to entertain too...
afx wideband $259 with NTK sensor included
power logger $250
chip $129
maf translator and maf $250 ish
it does up a bit but cheaper than dfi still.
There are 63 tables to adjust in the DFI with the pro-key, do you think an average guy is going to get that worked out? I couldn't.
The TT wide band chip uses the stock 02 sensor and BLM's for light cruising, and on boost the maf gets out of the picture around 240 grams, and the wideband adjusts upt to -15 to +33% fuel. However it still has issues as the base fueling is set on a certain boost level, so if your messing with the boost you have to dial the chip in closer so its not too far out of the boundary. Datalogging 54 parmeters @18 fps with the power logger is no slouch either. Compared to 6 on the DFI.
For a race car an aftermarket is great because you have more fuel control in the maf at different boost/rpm points, individual cyl fuel and timing control, and injector sync control, launch and nitrous, etc, but I think you don;t need this stuff at 400 hp?
I like to entertain too...
afx wideband $259 with NTK sensor included
power logger $250
chip $129
maf translator and maf $250 ish
it does up a bit but cheaper than dfi still.
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On a a race car there is little choice.
The DFI does all of that. They even an alt spark and fuel maps that can be used specifically for lean cruise at highway spark adv and based on TPS. There is an entire screen dedicated to TCC lockup and it even has a 4th gear switch input with alt fuel and spark maps for tuning while in LU. There is also a separate barometric control table that will automatically adjust the VE table based on barometric pressure! The DFI does all of that BUT it takes a lot of time to set it all up correctly and make it all work.
Granted in my TSO car I didnt spend a lot of time messing with a lot of the additional features and drive ability screens the DFI offers but in my T-type I have. I would put my t-type's DFI tune for around town driveability, idle, and MPG up against any stock ECM car that is comparably modified.
I'm not knocking the stock stuff and what some have done with the stock ECM. A lot has been done since I messed with them eons ago. It is a lot easier to take a computer that has factory specific programming and tweak it to work for you app. but in the performance world this can only take you so far.
I disagree. I think a DFI has MORE in it if not more than the factory 86-87 capabilities plus you don't need to be able to read hexidecimal to understand it. Now I think once you start getting into OBDII stuff and especially the Gen 4 ECU's they are far beyond what any aftermarket system can provide.
Norbs I believe you are smarter than that, I just don't think you gave it enough time. If you think 63 tables is bad you should see whats in an E38 PCM in my Pontiac G8
That is one of the reasons Accel made a pro-key many of those tables are factory presets and don't really need messed with but it is nice to have them just in case. The new DFI Thruster actually stripped many of these table out.
It does gives the advanced tuner more versatility to dial in a combo for what they are tuning and trying to accomplish. I've worked with all the tables at some point and there isn't anything in there I found difficult especially when a general outline is provided in the help files. There isnt anything in there that I haven't need at some point either.
The one table that is is probably the most difficult to understand is the TAU table for transient fueling. The DFI uses a calculation based on MAP, temp, and residual fuel to come up with an airmass calculation for transient fueling The concept is a little tough to grasp for some but using it isnt. If you want more fuel increase the spread between numbers if you want less decrease it. Funny thing is this models how OEM's like to do things.
STFT are typically only used for cruising and based on narrow band O2, WBO2 should only be referenced for WOT, which BTW the factory ECU doesn't control once it goes into PE.
This is a bastardized version of a closed loop SD system that is trying to emulate what the aftermarket systems do. The MAF is useless at this point but then again the factory MAF is pretty useless even on a stock car lol.
I dont know what all TT is doing BUT I do know the factory ECM doesn't look at boost/map in anyway. It is purely a MAF based system and is VERY primitive compared to newer MAF systems. You do realize the factory ECM has no boost reference and no WOT fuel control?
It is interesting to not the newer GM stuff uses both SD and MAF. If you want difficult try understanding the airmass calculations GM virtual VE tables generate or try and figure out a shift curve on a 6L80
LOL I wouldn't use a Gen 6 DFI for anything. You wont get any arguments out of me about the ****ty datalogging in the Gen 7.
Closed loop WOT fuel control is a good thing to have especially for the avg Joe. I think once you get beyond the capabilities of the stack MAF system an aftermarket system should be considered. Stock chips are fine but then again you are at the mercy of the chip tuner unless you understand Hex.
A new DFI thruster is $1500-1600 with an internal datalogger harness and WBO2 and can be put on a car and up running tuned in a day. Plus Joe avg can easily learn how to use it and tune with it himself if he chooses to.
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When I have more info and facts on the dfi this we will continue this post.
Lol, OK
slimtastic
yea dude...I rock
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getting rid of the gen 7 to go to a stock computer is like a stagecoach racing a turbo regal
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Did you get the ECM updated?
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Cool,
LMK what WBO2 you plan to use along with injectors and MAP sensor and I will write you a whole new tune.
It'll be less work than fixing your old one plus there are a lot of new changes in the update you just got.
Hope all is going well otherwise.
LMK what WBO2 you plan to use along with injectors and MAP sensor and I will write you a whole new tune.
It'll be less work than fixing your old one plus there are a lot of new changes in the update you just got.
Hope all is going well otherwise.
Lol that's what I thought. Just making sure I'm not missing out on some new gadget for my gen7.
Chris, 72Lb/hr, my autometer es has a output, and it looks like it's a stock gm, I know it's a 3 bar from a voltage test. I think you are up to speed on the major mods. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Little man is doing great. Thanks.
Little man is doing great. Thanks.
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What is this? If it is your WBO2 I will need some info from it so if you have a link to the specs on it from autometer lmk
The autometer wideband es has a 0-4v data output feed for ECU or data logging unit. I was told by a prestolite tech I could hook it to the add on data logging wideband box. Thats my plan unless I am total wrong.
Just was looking at 77062n which wide band data logging box, which the prestolite tech told me would work, looks like it needs a 0-5v feed.
Anyway to recaliberate it to read a 0-4v feed?
Just was looking at 77062n which wide band data logging box, which the prestolite tech told me would work, looks like it needs a 0-5v feed.
Anyway to recaliberate it to read a 0-4v feed?
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You should be able to hook it directly up to the Gen 7 if it is a WBO2 controller and sensor. If you bought the datalogger box then you dont really need the autometer as you can hook a bosch or NTK sensor directly up to it.
With the Autometer output which should be 0-5v we can set up a custom WBO2 in the Gen 7 that'll use the autometer info. I just need the settings and scale the autometer uses which should be available on their website.
I still cant find any info on what an autometer es is
Do you have a link or part #? Is it just a gauge?
With the Autometer output which should be 0-5v we can set up a custom WBO2 in the Gen 7 that'll use the autometer info. I just need the settings and scale the autometer uses which should be available on their website.
I still cant find any info on what an autometer es is
Do you have a link or part #? Is it just a gauge?
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