Getting bottom end done..........

[DissT]

Well after fixing a leaky O-ring near the oil filter I start it up and hear the knock(first time under it while running). No mistaking it and unfortunatly I do not have the room until I move to work on it but would like to drive the car. Obviously not wanting to cause more damage I am toying with the idea of a local Goodyear doing the work. They get their parts from southeast performance and have assured me they are more then qualified to replace the crank/mains blah blah blah. I understand until it comes apart and the motor comes out the extent will not be known but anyway he said about 1,200 or so in Labor with a final bill in the 2k range.

So worth the 2k? I can put whatever parts I want in. He is ordering a crank kit basically. Concerned with his Master Techs (as he put it several times) touching my other wife. I feel comfortable with their abilities thru word of mouth and speaking with the mechanics but they are still putting hands in her.

Any ideas on parts for longevity would be appreciated. The car has run 11's and really have no plans to make it any faster. Also any information about what to really stress to them while doing the install as far as tolerances and 3.8 unique items would help a ton.

Thanks in Advance.

 

[turbo39151]

Find a reputable name in "Turbo Buick" engine building (local is better). While I'm not keen on spending a ton of money on the so-called experts... (their collective price always seems to hover in the $5k price range). At least for the price you pay you'll have piece of mind that it was done right, you can always go back and have it redone if it isn't right (for that kind of dough at least you should be able to...) and if you ever sell the car, I suppose it would carry more weight and probably command more money if the engine has been touched by an expert as opposed to a local "wrench" that may or may not know what they were doing... Just my .02

-Good Luck

 

[83ttypecooled]

knock

Hi,
What did the noise sound like? A sharp metallic knock, or a dull thud? Mains take a lot of beating on our motors,could just be a lot of mb clearance due to the wear.I would want the shop to itemize what they will do for 2K.I also would be concerned about getting a turbo crank, with rolled fillets.Is the motor pretty stock? A complete overhaul could surprise you, but patching isn't such a good idea, either. Machine work is critical,otherwise you are wasting your money, and time. Best to find a person with a lot of background in these engines. Good luck!

 

[DissT]

More like a dull thud. I am trying to talk with the gentlemen that did all the work on the car up to this point. He left his number but just have been missing each other. Mods should be in sig now. I know everything done except for the pistons/crank etc. Obviously not going to just rip it apart to find out but I believe he left it stock because of the racing classes.

Thanks for the info so far keep it coming and any decent places around Tampa people trust.

 

[rodman99999]

If they order a "crank kit": it may not have the rolled fillets, may have been bent/straightened, may have been welded/metalized/etc., etc... Stick with someone known for reliable Buick rebuilds. There are way too many things peculiar to these engines that need to be properly addressed to take any chances with the average "good mechanic".

 

[Blown&Injected]

For $2K, you can do forged speed pro pistons and Eagle crank - bore, balance, and line bore. it costs a bit more for the balancer and flex plate that the crank should use. As far as specs, that is a great debate and there is a book that lists the specs for engines, it is not like they machine it to whatever they feel is right but there are many that like to open it up a bit beyond the upper ranges of stock.

 

[rodman99999]

And the ones that open it up more than stock will cost you your rod bearings(just carry a broom and dust pan to the track). The rods get their oil through the mains. Open the mains up and they bleed off the oil that would go to the rods. One of the prime reasons to take it to an experienced Buick machinist. A good one will keep the mains around .0015"-.002". Too many try to apply what works well on a Chevy to these engines(higher RPM/higher oil pressures). These puppies are generating massive torque at very low RPM, and if your rods are oil starved: they'll heat up and spin a bearing.

 

[DissT]

Alright well I spoke with the person that worked on the car before and he informed me while the bottom is stock they did race comp bearings/arp bolts etc. Has about 200-300 miles on motor since rebuild. Total miles on motor is about 15k, blew a headgasket a few months ago and they decided to go a bit deeper and change some things out, port heads blah blah blah.

Going to get the car back and take it to him next week to look at after I figure out who has a Mig welder I can borrow to fix a exhaust leak. They are very experienced buick people who can be trusted and some of you probably know them. They own a stage II buick and I think another TR.

Would much rather put the money towards curing some body cancer and replacing some interior parts. The car is fast enough and I don't really have a craving to run below 11's.

Thanks for the information it has helped.

 

[9secWH1]

stay away from any and everyone who doesnt KNOW these cars
the other coast melborne Hartline performance and there is an other one in orlando area forgot the name.

 

[Blown&Injected]

And the ones that open it up more than stock will cost you your rod bearings(just carry a broom and dust pan to the track). The rods get their oil through the mains. Open the mains up and they bleed off the oil that would go to the rods. One of the prime reasons to take it to an experienced Buick machinist. A good one will keep the mains around .0015"-.002". Too many try to apply what works well on a Chevy to these engines(higher RPM/higher oil pressures). These puppies are generating massive torque at very low RPM, and if your rods are oil starved: they'll heat up and spin a bearing.

The shop, Mancini Machine, that does Bill Anderson's cranks says different.

Guess I will find out - only one tank of gas through my engine

 

[Razor]

Guys.. the engine has a girdle. The goodyear will XXXX your motor. The issue is the girdle.. no longer are we in Kansas Dorothy :wink:

There is a shop in Venice, Venice Machine, I use for my machine work, they can build the short block. Cal on the East Coast can also deal with it. The shop in Orlando mentioned is KDK. My buddie Richie in Seminole can also do the work, he has 1-2 projects ahead at the moment.

KDK phone number is 407-298-2706
Cals phone number is 321-522-1563

You need to get aquainted with the locals that own turbo buicks.. go to the Fl section of the board.

If it was a Cutlass or Monte Carlo.. i'd tell ya let GoodYear have it. No telling how the motor was assembled, what was missed, what was done, etc.

Been there.. done that.. got the shirt

 

[DissT]

Thanks Razor, also need to talk about alky systems in the future.

Everything was done correctly on the car up to now. Engine girdle included. You cannot drop the pan unless that is removed so yea alot more work involved.

Stop by the Fl. section later and introduce myself.

 

[Razor]

Everything was done correctly on the car up to now. Engine girdle included. You cannot drop the pan unless that is removed so yea alot more work involved.

You assumme

Then why is there knock now

Either it got hurt after getting built, or was built wrong.

Was this the car that didnt have a scanmaster on it and a younger owner raced it.. I remember a few months ago I was at Sunshine, the 1/8 mile track.. there came a Buick trailered in.. on slicks.. had a girdle.. no scantool on it.. the owner said he could listen for knock.. didnt know what size injectors or what chip.. I tried reasoning to no avail. It ran like 9.0 in the 1/8 that night. Few months go by and I see the same car again, on a trailer at Bradenton runs a high 11. If this is the same car, it was beat on without monitoring.. shame

Yup.. you have to pull the motor. And sealing the girdle to the engine block, setting the clearances, etc... not to be learned on.

You can use the GoodYear for the R&R.. dont let them do any assembly to shortblock..

HTH

 

[DissT]

You assumme

Then why is there knock now

Either it got hurt after getting built, or was built wrong.

Was this the car that didnt have a scanmaster on it and a younger owner raced it.. I remember a few months ago I was at Sunshine, the 1/8 mile track.. there came a Buick trailered in.. on slicks.. had a girdle.. no scantool on it.. the owner said he could listen for knock.. didnt know what size injectors or what chip.. I tried reasoning to no avail. It ran like 9.0 in the 1/8 that night. Few months go by and I see the same car again, on a trailer at Bradenton runs a high 11. If this is the same car, it was beat on without monitoring.. shame

Yup.. you have to pull the motor. And sealing the girdle to the engine block, setting the clearances, etc... not to be learned on.

You can use the GoodYear for the R&R.. dont let them do any assembly to shortblock..

HTH

Read my introduction in the florida area and all your questions will be anwsered. Short version yes yes and yes.

 

[DissT]

Well cut open the oil filter and there is nice silver shavings thru out. Saved some of the paper and can take pictures but I am sure most have seen it. The oil guage has not worked since I had the car, went thru it real quick but couldn't find anything obvious wrong with it.

Put the car in nuetral and at 2,500 rpms you can hear it trying to shake itself apart so definetly going into the engine. Would like to do most of the work myself to save on $$$ but never been in a 3.8 turbo motor before. Going to use Razors suggestions for companies to do the machine work but what exactly am I going to need to look out for that is different to ensure a correct repair with some longevity. I have read thru as many posts as I have time for but so much information spread thru many areas it is tuff to decifer it all. Also have never been involved with a engine girdle so any information with that would be a huge help too.

Going to build a motor for the car in a few years so looking to repair it properly with basically stock parts for under 1k.

Thanks again for everyones help and input.

 

[tomcatturbo]

Hey Ron

Ron-

If you go to KDK or Hartline to get the engine redone with the girdle, you're going to spend quite a bit of $$$ getting it done, and done right. That's the way I'd go if I was you, with one of those guys. Do it right, and also it'll make your investment more worthy. I'd probably go with the Cal guy at Hartline. Hartline will go to the track with you after your done to make some runs after he does the work- Kevin at KDK has all the facilities there onsite, (and is a little closer). Maybe you should ditch the girdle... that things expensive and only if you're going to be racing the car, anyways, right? Your preference...

If you go with someone else, (Firestone), you'll save money, but it's like the other fellas said, you don't know exactly what you're getting- and also what about warranty on the work and parts?

good luck dude

 

[onefastcar]

Small world he traded that car for a 5.0 talked to him approx. 3wks ago in Seffner at a car show they have every week he said it ran 11's and that he and his dad rebuilt the car, he saw my car along with a neighbor of his who owns a gn and cutlass with a transplant turbo6 in it nice car BTW, guy was older and seemed to know his stuff, but yes the kid admitted he beat on the car pretty badly, i normally don't like tellin people these things but this is a buick enthusiast board and i don't like people gettin other than stories, but that was from the horses mouth, now i don't know the owner that actually sold it to ya but the 5.0 for the year (older) i'm not sure looked like it was well taken care of, i always wanted a gn bought this from a 75 year old guy just 2min. from my house, it was just more than he could handle and i like body work to a point, so project started, i heard of the guy with the transplant cutlass lives across the street from him and this was the person who goaded him into buyin my car that he had transported from kentucky which he saw while on vacation now if someone from kentucky chimes in of knowin this car that would be funny T-top 87 gn. BTW why even girdle that engine unless ya want to go into the tens your talkin stock parts sell it on this board and use the money for billet mains unless it already has or for other parts?

 

[tomcatturbo]

"The Truth will set you Free"

thanks for the truth- Onefastcar

You knew a lot more than I did, that's for sure...

(I only traded to get the what I really ever wanted for that Vert5.0 anyways)

I upgraded that 5.0 (which by the way was extremely nice, with a Brand New
Gt40 Crate Motor that ran a best of 12.10 just on motor) to-

A 2003 Cobra.

Mike in Tampa
87 GNX Clone (Done Right and For Possible Sale) :biggrin:
2003 Mustang SVT Cobra (Bone Stock, except for Pulley)

 

[onefastcar]

Not into coined phrases just what i hear and people say, not sure what the guy told ya, i know what he said to me.

 

[DissT]

Appreciate the honesty but most of this was pretty apparent by looking at the car. I knew what I was getting which is also why it really dosen't bother me. I mean it had a 1/4 thick rubber stuck to the rear quarter and exhaust.

Get thru these first big humps and all will be well. Got a new oil pressure gauge today and it was 80 psi on start up. Wasn't run very long since I do not have a exhaust on it atm(prolly 3 seconds). Exhaust should be here early next week.