Give me your GSCA knock list..

[Warped]

I know I'll regret this but...

I understand there are good folks out there that have some honest negative opinions about the GSCA and/or the Nats. Putting the emotion aside and keeping the comments to a minimum I'd like a list of things you guys think are wrong with the GSCA and/or the Nats.

From my sig you can see that I have been in the GSCA since we voted in the Scottish Inn parking lot in 1980 to start the club. I've been to 21 of 23 Nats and will be there again this year (assuming they let me in after starting this thread). Other than running the club library years ago I have never had any official function in the club and only speak to the powers that be if I see them at the Nats, so you won't be hurting my feelings with your opinions. I'd like the views of the V8 Buick guys too. Rather than post the question on two boards I'll just post it here. So if you know a V8 guy with a comment let him know about this post.

I know the GSCA and Nats are not perfect so I'd like current and past members, participants, and attendees to give me a list of what they think is wrong with both. This is not a joke. I'd really like to know what the complaints are. I've read some of the posts regarding this so I'll start the list with two I can recall.

1 - Track preparation
2 - Safety

TIA, I think.

 

[azgn]

I think some of the resentment stems from the fact that the GSCA, although it is called a "club", is really Richard Lassiter's private organization/business......not really a member run "club"

I have no problem with this because he must have the patience of Job to put up with us Buick folks! (and if he can make a little $$ doing so, more power to him....)

 

[Two Lane]

MAKE THE "NATS" TRULY NATIONAL

Have the Nats in a different region of our great & diverse country, each year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are convenient & modern tracks all across this beautiful nation, so finding dozens of improved facilities would be easy.

In other words, make the "Nats" truly national...encourage attendance, membership, and participation from all sections of the USA.

(Why would anyone join the GSCA, knowing they'd never be able to attend or participate in the "Nats"?)
_____________________________________________
_____________________________________________

Anything else that can be done to increase participation on a genuinely national basis needs active consideration.

This would allow a broader "cast-of-characters" organizing, guiding, planning, shaping a future for a truly vibrant GSCA.

Reinventing the "Nats" might be necessary to reinvigorate them
sufficiently for the GSCA to gain & maintain the ongoing lifeblood it needs to have any sort of future as rich as its past.

HTH

 

[Rollin]

Lance, I understand your concern. However by your own admission you:

have never had any official function in the club

So by obtaining a concensus of all things negative with this event from the Turbo Buick community what is your impetus? As you know the Turbo Buick community is not as large as the V8 community. That said don't you think you would receive more participation in that venue? I don't have a problem with your question and as long as things remain civil this thread will remain open. However, IMHO I just think that by posting this it could possibly start more problems than already exist.

Geoff

 

[whitehot84]

Let's start with going to Columbus, paying for all weekend, paying a 50 dollar registration fee, breaking my tranny on thursday and not being given ANY type of refund whatsoever. Oh! They did offer me an additional ticket for Sunday. Duh !!!!

Going to Bowling Green twice only to be rained out and NO refunds whatsoever.

I think Richard has had way more fun at the Nats than me.

I refuse to donate to his retirement fund any more.

 

[Buicksx2]

Hi Lance,

Thanks for taking on such a topic/thread.

Payouts: I am not talking about the amounts, as they are what they are but some past actions have soured some folks like what happened in the tower over the Quick 16 monies paid in and what they got or didnt get. Sure those folks can chime in if they so choose.

Perceptions on opinions: It "seems" that if you mention a problem or have an opinion contrary to theirs that it isn't welcomed. A quick exmple of that is a few years back when there was a thread about the possibility of asking some imports to come race on that Friday. Art Paltz merely asked a question and he was admonished and banend from the bulletin board. Now to be fair on the other side of the fence Rich Lassiter had the few of us reinstated onto the bulletin board.

The perception was that some of the administrators were doing their own thing without Rich Lassiter knowing that, a boys club mentallity is the perception, and perception is or can be reality.

Now a possible suggestion would be maybe for Rich to come online and address some issues personally in addition to addressing members in the newsletter. By doing so maybe he can recruit new members.

Thanks again Lance for taking this topic on, not sure what will come out of it but at least its an expression of opinions.

 

[8587GN]

Rollin,are you sure about the turbo guys being less in numbers than the v8 guys?At BG I see three turbo cars versus one GS.Maybe the fact that a GS is VERY expensive to restore[I know,I`m restoring a 71 Stage1]could have something to do with the lower v8 cars running around down there.
Back to the original question at hand,safety is a biggie,cars going into the 10s without a rollbar is unsafe.
I have not been a member for a number of years now

Keith

 

[JRSGN]

Lance,

For what it's worth, I'll try to break it down like this.

I USE TO go with PG (Scotty) to the nats & one thing that sticks out was In the trailer They were selling shrits (10 or 15 $) & the powers that be said He needed a vendor spot to sell stuff . Come on Shrits, They would have payed for some gas for the car..

The GSCA BB. Whenever there was a problem or someone didn't see it the way that the "Powers that be" like it , It was deleted....I made a post there & it was gone in 1 thats right 1 day...We were (I thought) getting somewhere & it vanished. Nobody (moderators) knew nothing About the post...

I don't have a problem with sombody making money, But I do have a problem with paying for somthing & asking What & why & getting it pushed aside like "WE CAN'T BE BOTHERED", I'm not saying That is what happend, BUt thats what it felt like...

I would like to have the Event get better & better Every year BUt if I'm Going to travel 18 hrs to get Aggravated I'll just stay home & listen to Wifey
Thanks for listening.....Reading....

Jim...

.

I don't have a problem with your question and as long as things remain civil this thread will remain open

I hope it does...



PS: What ever happened to the I/C test????

 

[RoseyT]

I'll chime in as a past member. When I bought my first TR back in 1993, the first thing I did was subscribe to Kirban's newsletter and the gsca. It was money well spent as both were a valuable wealth of information. But as time went on, there seemed to be nothing new coming out of my subscription of the gsca newsletters, I say subscription because the 'club' aspect wore off quickly. It is gsca management's absolute right to make a profit no doubt, but please, don't masquerade as a 'club'. After years of bi-monthly newsletters arriving in what felt like every four months and a couple of renewal checks that cleared with no problem but I had to make calls to get my membership reinstated, I gave up. The gsxtra also seemed to go from an 'informational' resource to an all out 'infomercial', by only reviewing and recommending products made by advertisers, kind of like what gmhtp does. Going back some years, I remember an article in the gsxtra about a comparison test of cat-back exhausts, I don't remember the exact details, but they either didn't test or didn't recommend the hooker catback. I asked a prominent member of the gsca about that because I had bought the hooker catback solely on his recommendation, his one word answer was 'politics'.

I also feel is that the gsca did nothing to keep up with the times. In this day and age where any and all information is available with a click of a mouse, the gsca has missed the boat. Even Kirban, who's newsletters years ago used to look like he was typing with two fingers on a manual typewriter, now emails his monthly newsletters in a timely and professional manner. With amazing resources like Turbobuick.com, Gnttype.org, Turbobuicks.com, v8buick.com and the mailing lists, we have instant, real time Buick information, we are not reading about product tests and project cars that took place at least 6 months prior. Sure the gsca has their own bb, but we all know that story.

Two Lane makes a great point, how about making the nationals national? After every nats, there seems to be the usual complaints of lousy track prep, safety, bad weather, etc. only to be blamed on a supposedly cheap/greedy track owner. I'll be the first to understand and appreciate the fact that its not easy to put on this type of an event and at times is probably a 'thankless' job.
But another major factor now is that the nats is not the only game in town anymore, you have Norwalk, Bristol (maybe not this year?), Reynolds, Vegas, Englishtown every labor day weekend, a BPG event being planned for 2004 and i'm sure i'm missing some other events here. When people spend their hard earned money, they are going to go where they feel appreciated and respected. Its my belief that what seems to be the gsca's arrogance, unwillingness to change and old school mentality in this area has probably led to some of hard feelings among some nats attendees and past and present members/subscribers.

Lance, you asked for opinions of what some of us thought was 'wrong' with the gsca, please don't consider what I wrote as what's 'wrong' or a flame/insult/slam, but merely as what I felt personally turned me away from the gsca. If the current business policies are working for them, great, more power to them, but if I was running my own business, this wouldn't be a business model that I would follow.

Also, Lance, you have a great website there, I cant wait to see the pictures from this years nats. I wish everyone a safe trip, great weather, and even better timeslips I truly wish that this year is the biggest and best ever, because in the long run, it will only benefit the entire Buick community as a whole.

Thanks.

 

[Screamin6]

I sent out my money for GSCA membership way back in '85, when I took control of a '65 GS 401. I sent my money in every year for 5-7 years. I had major problems getting issues one year, and it turns out someone screwed up membership numbers. I was in the 800's and someone else had the same number, so I get screwed and am the one who gets to have his # in the 2500 range. Gee, thanks. I still haven't gotten my back issues. I even went to the Nats 1 year after I got my GN. That's where I started to hear about the politics in the club. (I'll never forget the poster on all the telephone poles with Rich LAssiter holding a chick with huge cans, and a line on the bottom describing where the $$$ went. Into those new sweater puppies of his woman). They entered into the GSXtra also, with the 1-2 page article calling Torque Technologies by the name "Dorque Tech" and claiming their cams were ripoffs of the club cams and made pulls on the armchair dyno. What a waste of my time to read this crap for months. The articles became few and far between, and full of useless ads. I tried calling the GSCA # a few times to ask questions about my GS, and got nothing but airtime. No answers. One time I did get through and was told to buy back issues. Gee, that made me feel all warm and fuzzy. I finally decided to not send in dues as I had it with the BS.

But I DID sell my GS a few years ago to a GSCA member, as I knew that PERSON would take care and restore the car. Not the club. They didn't do squat for me except give me 1 sticker (Oh I asked for a sticker 1 year, after being with them for a few years, and was told I would have to pay for one. Gee, a 20 cent sticker thanks D!ck) and a bunch of useless paper. The NE Chapter was and still is the better value. At least they have a Christmas dinner every year, and make you feel welcome. I've never taken advantage of the dinner though. I am not a current member of the NE Chapter at the moment.

Oh well, that's my brain dump for the moment. I it helps you then swell, if not then I'm glad I wasted your time reading my banter. It'll teach you a lesson.

 

[VETKILR]

Hey Lance, btw sweet website, since i cant go to Nats this year, look forward to seeing your website, always a pleasure.

The nats has been bothered by the debacles of the bulletin board, especially last year over their policy of no reimbursement for the rain out. That was bs, people dont realize how much they guys in quick 16 spend to win a few thousand which you can go to Norwalk on an average sat night and win that or quaker city, and have much better traction. The track, i dont know if they dont want to cooperate, but Richard always blames them for it. We should have given Columbus a better chance, i know the guy who set Richard up for the event and though i havent talked to him in a while, he feels badly he was never given anything in return. Lassitter can make all the money he wants to, my stepfather has been a member since 1986 and still likes it, i like the BPG a lot so far and just sent in my $35 subscription. I talked over the summer with many of the buick guys i know from ohio, who have been gsca members since it started and they still like going, but they are the diehards, they will go no matter what. I feel if the gsca would give out more money and make it seem like they really want the cars out, like gs are almost extinct at the nats. No way in the last 10s year, i have videos of them all , that bg has had more gs than trs. Its a complete swap which is a shame but still fun to watch everyone race. You will always have problems, some just less than other. Norwalk is an example, great track, great program, but doesnt have the closeness and cruising ability of BG which is what people like best. All i know is i like going to BG to see everyone, if it pockets lassitter 's pocketbook oh well, he should try harder to have the track hook much better, if dallas jones needs a swift kick in the a$$ then give it to him;when we left he cried to get us back and still hasnt given us any new items such as better traction or anything. the gsca needs to prove to its members that it is committed to providing a worthwhile for the money event, in doing so a better handling track and new location i believe would be great. i like bg, but change never hurts...

Tony Rose

 

[PEACHS]

Needs to pay out more prize money

King D!ck needs to pay out more prize money and also give out FREE schedules when you enter the track. Yes i am not a member and will NEVER re-join. What the previous comments have been sums it UP for me.

Going fast with no class.

 

[Warped]

Thanks and my replies

In order of your posts:

Woody – I agree. The GSCA tries to be both a club and business. Not sure the GSCA could have lasted 24 years without it being a business.

Two Lane – I agree. 12 hours from Texas is about my limit. I don’t know how people who have to drive more than 700 miles do it. A left coast area meet would be great. Hopefully Vegas will continue to grow.

Rollin – My motive is to obtain a clear and complete list of complaints about the GSCA and the Nats. Probably not possible. I have seen many posts that tend to paint a general negative image and give the impression the GSCA is not an organization you would want to be a part of and the Nats is not an event you would want to attend. If people could just list their concerns without the drama, folks who have never been in the GSCA or attended the Nats can see the issues and make an informed decision. I don’t expect this thread to be read or acted upon by the GSCA. I just wanted folks that may be interested in the club or the nats to have one thread to read. As far as not posting on the V8 board, I just didn’t want to keep track or two posts and as mentioned later in this thread the Turbos probably outnumber GS’s by now. However, the GS guys have been around longer and may have more complaints. If the discussion gets out of hand, please lock it and delete it if you like. I don’t want to be a part of anything like that.

whitehot84 - Rainouts suck. Not sure why we can't get refunds. Nobody pays Dallas when his regular programs get rained out. I'm sure Richard longs for the days he could just race and have fun like the rest of us. I doubt he's been able to do that for at least 15 years.

BuicksX2 – I don’t have personal experience with the payout problems but know of some that do. If this is the ultimate Buick event, it should have decent payouts. Many members are serious racers and have a lot invested. It’s understandable that they would skip the nats and go elsewhere that weekend where there is a larger payout. It is very easy to get riled up on these boards. Words have to be chosen carefully by posters and moderators. Just as the GSCA is both a club and a business, or maybe neither, the GSCA board is and is not the official voice of the GSCA.

8587GN – One of the nice things about the Nats is they have never been strict on the rules which may have been overkill on street cars of the past. But there is a limit. I understand that nobody wants to cut up a nice GN or GS to put a roll bar in but I agree that they may have pushed the envelope on 10 sec cars without roll bars.

JRSGN – I got busted one year for having a few parts for sale next to my car. Still irritates me. I can understand that guys like PG can’t put up and staff a tent in vendor’s row to sell a few shirts. Makes sense to me. Their argument to me was it’s not fair to the vendors that paid for their spot. I still see a lot of the trailers in the pits selling parts though. Regarding the board, we all need to think, speak carefully, and grow thicker skins. There’s nothing wrong with asking questions.

RoseyT – These are different times. I just receive the latest PC Magazine. It was 138 pages. It used to be twice that. That’s also why I quit doing the GSCA library. All the information was dated. The newsletter should be timely, impartial, and may need to refocus for the times. I hope there are other opportunities for the Buick community to race and show their cars. Every business and event should be customer oriented.

Screamin6 – It’s never a waste of time reading someone’s honest opinions. Everyone has to place a value on what they receive, or don’t receive. The GSCA is the newsletter and the Nats. If anyone feels neither are worth their time or money, there is nothing wrong with not belonging or participating.

Vetkilr – Columbus for me was a bummer. I know the payouts were great and the track is much nicer but the hotel layout was lousy and the grandstands were a $5 cab ride from the track. From what I was told the desire of members to go back to BG was overwhelming. It will be interesting to see if the change in Nats directors will result in improvements in the areas you mentioned.

Peachs – Thanks. No doubt it’s hard to get back an unsatisfied customer.

 

[JRSGN]

Lance,

Getting "BUSTED" is kinda like the wrong word. You Make it seem like they had a trailer of parts. There was 36 shirts. Thats it..
Sent up a tent is kinda nuts considdering that we were trying to get the fastest V8..Noboby had time to due that.


As to the BB & thicker skin, Why is it WE The MEMBER when were asking Questions about the GSCA or the way somthing is done it's like we are walking on Egg shells???

I understand your hands are tied but I'm glad you Answered...


thanks Jim

Also does Richard own a computer? Why can't he post here??Or on his BB.

 

[XXQUICK6XX]

GSCA

GSCA knock list. I know that the thing that keeps me involved is the great freindships that I have started via things by being involved with the ccgsca and the gsca. And the interaction that I get when I go to events. Not like when I was a member of the PFCA. The people I meet each year at Bowling Green and talk to are truely a great reason to go. And not to forget some of the best people that I've had the pleasure to share a great discussion and ideas with and they didn't know me from Adam, but still took the time to try and help and as well as answer my goofy questions and not even call me names.

And as far as the dues go the $35 isn't that bad to me I spend that some times just to get in at the track to race. I also got to join in on the atmosphere that bowling green has and I can only speak for myself comming from Chicago but it is refreshing and the town seems so freindly and never in all the years going down did I have a bad experience except for my own parts breakage! And this is going back quite a few years at which I was going down and I was not even a GSCA member but was so impressed with the way the people were. That I joined because I wanted to be more than a bystander but I wanted to participate. And each of the last two years I gave up a few hours of my time to help in the car show judging with a group of our peer's trying to take our car show to the next level.

And in closing I personally know that some people do have issues with the gsca all I can say is I hope that they someday be worked out and all of us can get along and not ruin what I consider a event that someday will make us all proud to be a part of.

Steve Pitts

 

[Randy Greenoe]

Re: Needs to pay out more prize money

Originally posted by PEACHS
King D!ck needs to pay out more prize money and also give out FREE schedules when you enter the track. Yes i am not a member and will NEVER re-join. What the previous comments have been sums it UP for me.

Going fast with no class.

Pay out more money? Why do you think Ron Lumans car is always fastest qualifier at most Buick events but hasn't been to the nationals since 2001? When he was fastest qualifier there also? He NEVER recieved the $300 fastest qualifier money,nothing but letters from King Richard assuring him that he would take care of it! Two years later and still no money. So you will probably see a quicker e.t. at Norwalk than at the nationals,because at least they pay!

 

[Warped]

JRSGN -

'Getting "BUSTED" is kinda like the wrong word. You Make it seem like they had a trailer of parts. There was 36 shirts. Thats it..
Sent up a tent is kinda nuts considdering that we were trying to get the fastest V8..Noboby had time to due that. '

When is said busted I was referring to myself for having parts for sale next to my car, not PG. The reference to trailers was not a reference to the PG trailer, rather, several other trailers in the pits that have used parts for sale and I don't have a problem with that. I also said it would be unreasonable to expect PG to set up and staff a tent in vendor row just to sell a few t-shirts. I've seen PG's trailer many times and it is just as you say. Just their car trailer with a few shirts hanging from the awning supports.


'As to the BB & thicker skin, Why is it WE The MEMBER when were asking Questions about the GSCA or the way somthing is done it's like we are walking on Egg shells???'

The WE reference includes those managing the GSCA board. In the reply to BuicksX2 I more correctly stated 'posters and moderators'. I should have been more specific in my reply to you.

'Also does Richard own a computer? Why can't he post here??Or on his BB.'

It has been stated before that Richard doesn't do the Internet thing. I find that hard to believe but I do believe he prefers to speak directly with people regardless of the issue. It is so easy to be misconstrued. This is why it's so important to read carefully and respond cautiously. Internet correspondence can add to the confusion of an already imprecise language. I posted the following question to one of the moderators on the GSCA. "If you know you're going to have to answer the question anyway, why not just do it." I was speaking in the context of the post about the GSCA when I used the word 'you'. He took it to mean him specifically. Yikes.

 

[JRSGN]

Lance,

Thanks for the Time on this Thread. "I" really mean that.
I know that on A couple of threads I kinda take it to the next level, So I'll be calm & ask these Questions

1. In your opionion, Why is alot of things with the GSCA "seem" To be going bad??
2.Why is it: the GSCA board is and is not the official voice of the GSCA...
How does his message get out?? A Bimonthly advertisment??
3.In your opionion, How can things get better???

Thanks Lance.

PS: How about that I/C test????

Jim

 

[n20junkie]

my beef about the nats,
you can race a buick powered mustang, but bring a chevy powered grand national and you have to leave it on the trailer as its not allowed, not even in a exibition class, oh and tweaked II can turn a few passes with its bb chevy and chevy body, and the other things that have been said.
Grant

 

[RCA/MERKENG#2]

I can not say bad or good to any of these comments because I have never attended the Nationals. Unfortunately I have to stay at the shop because we are always busy, which is a good thing for business but bad because I can never get there. The one thing I can state my opinion on which seems to be a gray area is what can or can not participate at the Nats. It is to my knowledge a Buick event , which to me means any and all BUICK powered cars could attend. If the powers to be want to allow other makes and models to participate then it should not be just one make they should open certain days for any and all to come. Not only would that settle the disputes of why a vette and not a mitsu turbo, but it would also generate more revenue for the club which could then be reinvested into making the event better & better each year. Because it is a BUICK event I do aggree that there should be set days that BUICK AND ONLY BUICKS can enter or race. Just my 2 cents ..

Paul Joseph