GN dissed at a Buick Dealership!

[BadAssGN]

I once a took a completely stock Monte Carlo to a dealer with an intermitant no start problem. I even offered to let them use the GM shop manuals I had for the car. The response was "We have all the manuals - we don't need yours." The next day they return the car saying they can't find the problem and that will be $200. Needless to say they didn't get paid for their good intentions. The really sad things is that I used the manual that they turned down, followed the diagnostic chart (the very one the Dealership Techs Must followed) and solved the problem.

I really think the problem lies with the way these techs are paid.

if the book pays 2 hours for a repair and it takes him 6 hours guess how much the tech gets paid... yeah 2 hours.

Now I'm paid hourly. and I could care less if it takes me 8 hours to find the problem, if it's justified (tough electrical short) then so be it.
at the end of the day it's fixed


There is not much incentive to fix your car if he's not getting paid.

 

[BLACK6PACK]

My brother told me he took his TSM car into a buick/chevy dealer for an alignment. This is a bright yellow Turbo T with all the goodies, every peice under the hood is polished aluminum etc. They pull it off the road and into the dealership, all the salesmen followed him to the service area, and all the people in the dealership flocked to the bay where his car was. He said it was unreal. This is a low 9.50s @ 143 car. Don't see to many of those on the street or at a dealership getting work done!:biggrin:

 

[GSX-PKV]

The way GM is going,:frown: the service writers will probably be out of work soon and learning new job skills like... "would you want fries with that"

 

[Brer Rabbit]

General ignorance...

Its actually a wonderful thing, I love the fact that people (usually younger kids in BMWs, and ricer junk) cant figure why that old square car just gave em a whippin. Like my Daddy used to say----"The Older the Buck, the Stiffer the Horn!" certainly applies in more than a few situations.

 

[asd60303]

I really think the problem lies with the way these techs are paid.

if the book pays 2 hours for a repair and it takes him 6 hours guess how much the tech gets paid... yeah 2 hours.

Now I'm paid hourly. and I could care less if it takes me 8 hours to find the problem, if it's justified (tough electrical short) then so be it.
at the end of the day it's fixed


There is not much incentive to fix your car if he's not getting paid.

I agree with you on this one. I went to a community college for my automotive degree which he had a shop class where we actually worked on students cars. It was run like a real shop. Needless to say, the service writer was always down our backs saying this job is only supose to take 2 hours, it took you 4...blah blah. When he was down our backs, most if not all of the students would be rushing or half-assing a job to get it out the door. His favorite quote was "you will never have a steady job if you always exceed the time it takes for a job." I cared more about never having a comeback. In 2 years of school, I only had 1 comeback because it was the end of the day and the teachers where telling my partner and I to hurry up so they could go home for the day.

 

[GNTIM]

I think this can happen at any repair shop. I take my GN to a recommended alignment shop. Mind you, they have a supposed alignment guru there. I hand the alignment guy my alignment specs and proceed to tell him "Do not go by factory specs. The car is not factory." Note: I put tubular arms with 1st Gen F-body spindles and manual steering on the front end which I made him aware of before he starts working on it. Guy says no problem.

He won't drive it and tells me to drive it on the rack. He set up the car and tells me to start it. I ask why do I have to start it. He tells me you have power steering and the computer says "Start it". I tell him the car has manual steering. At this point I felt like driving my car off the rack but I'll give him a chance. So he proceeds to get the toe in/out into specs. Then he tells me all done. I reply "What about the caster/camber?" He looks at me with his eyes and mouth open. Now he has to do some work. It took him 1.5 hrs to do the driver's side and he could only get it close and gave up. I told him forget about the passenger side.

What I notice today, there is no work ethic. Most want to wing it and be done with it. There is no more pride when someone does something.

That's why the illegals from Central America are cleaning up around here due to our own fault. I believe when someone gets laid off and wants unemployment, the unemployment office should have a list of jobs to hand out. There are plenty of contractors that need manual labor to be done, pick up litter from the highways, clean graffitti, etc, etc.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

I totally agree with the lack of work ethic these days, that is a big part of why I got out of the auto repair business. I just got tired of trying to find responsible techs, don't get me wrong because there were a few golden ones and I paid them well. There is a big difference between techs and parts hangers. I just ran into ax ex-girlfriends sister and she said they have been lost without my shop and have had nothing but problems at other shops. I had a freind of a friend align my car after I replaced the upper control arm bushings. This was very frustrating for me because I watched him and he did not do it right. Later, I found out he over-inflated the tires on one side to get the numbers in the green zone while I went to the bathroom!! Next guy goes to align it and the shop has no shims in stock! Then he tells me that 1 degree negative caster doesn't matter..

 

[Sleeper-6]

Sadly this Stereotype rings throughout the industry.

For instance, Clearly the vehicle is not Charging, I can't just change the alternator, I have to provide Output voltage and Amps. Voltage drop values on battery cables, and Battery load test printouts so the warranty Analysts can perform a failure analysis.

Dealer Techs are Higly trained and Must Follow protocol.

Cut them some Slack.

I can go on and on about the crap we face.

if Automotive dealer techs are different, then I apologise.
:redface:

BAGN : I believe the difference here is that you are a real Tech that knows why these steps are performed and what the numbers you are getting represent. Most of the "Mechanics" that are being discussed here have no idea of the how or why things work. They just swap parts that the book or computer tells them to without thinking about what the problem really is.

 

[klrv6]

Like when the 02 sensor reads high or low, they replace the sensor rather than looking into what part is causing the messed up reading...That's it....shoot the messenger.

 

[SilverSleeper]

My best friend is both Ford certified and Honda certified. Hes working at a fairly large Honda dealer right now.
I can say he is one of the few that are more concerned that the car/truck leave the shop and not have to come back for something down the line. Hes told me stories like are mentioned above, just to get the cars outta the shop only to come back later on.
He gets fired for various reasons, but a lot of it is traced to him being "too ethical" for the shop. Lots of times he will know whats wrong with a car the minute it comes in the shop, hes seen so many like it. But the writers try to argue with him and make him test a whole bunch of stuff that has nothing to do with the problem. Eventually, he ends up fixing whatever it was he thought in the first place.
You can't always put blame on the techs. Sure, you go into some places, and they really have no clue. But then, try taking a carbed car into any dealer and tell them it has an off idle stumble. You'll get a lot of weird looks when they open the hood. Which is why I do as much work as I can on my own. But the dealers aren't making money on new cars, so they will make money fixing the other stuff however they can.

 

[gordyzx9r]

You would probably get a different reaction from each and every Buick dealership you go to. I've been to some dealerships where Buick heritage was apparent with GS, GSX, GN, GNX stuff on the walls and whatnot with sales guys that were old and crusty that were working there because they'd been there forever that knew every make and model of Buick there ever was. Then, you go to some dealerships where they would have absolutely no clue what a GN was. As far as mechanics go, it's usually best to find someone that specializes in the turbo regal via one of the websites and research them and ask questions.

 

["Turbo-T"]

There was once a time being a qualified mechanic meant being able to diagnose an automotive problem, electrical or mechanical. It seems that today Dealers mechanics are nothing more than trained monkeys that can only turn wrenches or change components their computers tell them to. It's pretty sad then lay persons (as most of us are) are better at figuring out the problems these cars have than the dealers.

I concur.

Back in the day a good mechanic could diagnose the problem, fix it right the first time and not bend you over/charge you your first born for it.

Now these fools can't even change oil w/o forgetting to tighten the oil filter...so your engine leaks oil all over the road and is seized in a matter of minutes.

Same thing in parts stores....used to be the guy behind the counter knew a Chevy from a Ford from a Dodge. Now if you need something as simple as a headlamp bulb, it's required to ask if the vehicle has a/c and if it's a FWD.

No work ethic, quantity over quality, lack of decent technical training, give a dam's busted....that spells most of today's so-called "mechanics". But they'll be the first to scream "I'm ASE certified".

ASE = Aren't Seriously Experts

 

[INEEDAGN]

Back in the day a good mechanic could diagnose the problem, fix it right the first time and not bend you over/charge you your first born for it.

Back in the day cars were rediculously simple and any grease monkey could fix it without a four year degree and $20K+ in tools.

Besides, with the current rate of inflation, your first born really isn't worth that much anymore.

 

[mr go fast]

Im glad I do my own alignments. :biggrin: The old lady was dropping her boss at the local Lexus dealer. She drove the GN that day. This cat comes out of the service department and was trippin' on the car. He was an older cat and used to work at the local Buick dealer that is no more. He politely asked to look inside. He said that he hadnt seen a clean one like ours in a long time. She didnt know how to handle the attention cause we are used to driving muskrats. As she was leaving he asked her to light them up. She didnt....

 

[BadAssGN]

The Same Crap happens up here in Canada but probably not as bad.

The only reason I say not as bad is we have an appreticeship program meaning it takes 5 years (3 terms in college) to become a licenced Tech
in Toronto Canada.

it's even harder in my field (Heavy Trucks)

You actually have to pass a final exam that is over 30 pages long to be Licenced.

However, it takes the odd knuckle head 3 or 4 trys to get it.

it's really sad when these guys rush the job and have no pride in their work

You can spot these guys quickly, they are the guys leaving greasy fingerprints and moving vehicles with no seat covers, crap like that,.

 

[craggar]

X2

Sorry guys, but you can't expect very many people to be familiar with a niche vehicle 20 years after the fact. Sure, you and I know that electronically they are virtually identical to any FWD 3800 from the late 80's, and there are very few vehicle specific parts here, and that this is multiport EFI and DIS in it's easiest, most basic form, but to someone who hasn't ran across one it can look intimidating. I've heard so many comments like "that thing has more sensors than the space shuttle" and "how can you keep finding parts for that thing". We all know there are morons in the industry that don't belong here but they usually weed themselves out over time. Most dealership techs are highly trained people that know their brand pretty well.

I agree, I am hiring a guy for my shop that when it comes to my GN I know way more then him and I'm not a mechanic. Although I have been building and playing with cars for 20+ years. This guy has always worked at a GM dealership.
When I ask him something about my GN he justs says he was still in grade school when they came out. He can figure it out but I usually do instead. But when it comes to newer vechicles he is a wiz, almost always under the book time and never any comebacks which is why I need him not to mention he's also a great chasis builder.
My other guy is only a couple years older but has only worked at a dealership for a couple years. He knows the older cars inside out and is probably one of the best all around trouble shooters around here. This guy is a good trouble shooter because he's had to work on everything. He's also a journeyman machinist which he did for 10 years at the shop where I first met him. There they usually got engines that were out of the car already but when the car came into the shop, him and one other guy took turns doing everything from start to finish including R&R.
I consider myself pretty good with older cars and chasis work but that's all I've ever worked on. When I got my GN I was intimidated by it but am slowly feeling more comfortable working on it.

On a side note I went to get another cell phone yesturday and as I got out of the car a guy getting into his says "wow" nice Monte, I just said thanks and went inside. The guy inside asks "is that a Cutlass"? I asked if he ever heard of a GN, he said no so I left it at that.

 

[hrhoward]

All of the woes mentioned here I encountered in the early 90's. There was one dealership in Brighton, MI that would and could work on these cars. Honest and reasonable. However they were the exception to the rule. That is why I learned to do almost everything myself. Actually these are the cars are the ones I cut my teeth on, so to speak. I am blessed with the "knack" though. Only things I won't/can't do is alignment machine work. Not really sure if I can do any body work, gonna try but not holding my breath.

 

[FreeBoost]

I am blessed with the "knack".

You must be an engineer. All us engineers have the "knack".

YouTube - Dilbert - The Knack

 

[GNeric]

Good point...to a point. This is where experience and knowledge come into play. I build transmissions and I am the only ASE Master certified tech at my Toyota Dealer ship who can do everything I am certified in. I am the only trans builder. We regularly get transmissions in that pay upwards of 18 hours for R&R and labor and I get them done in under 10. All wheel drive Rav4's and such. This is how I make my money. I have the knowledge to do this and the other guys would loose their a$$es is they tried it. They know they cannot keep up with me even though some have the Toyota Master Diagnostitician status. They keep asking me for help and I have told the owner that every time they ask for help, I want $15 off of each RO they ask for help on. Only fair that if they want my knowledge, they need to pay for it.

I really think the problem lies with the way these techs are paid.

if the book pays 2 hours for a repair and it takes him 6 hours guess how much the tech gets paid... yeah 2 hours.

Now I'm paid hourly. and I could care less if it takes me 8 hours to find the problem, if it's justified (tough electrical short) then so be it.
at the end of the day it's fixed


There is not much incentive to fix your car if he's not getting paid.

 

[chopped39]

OMG!!! This describes our 22 year old "Master Tech" here at Toyota. He passed everything on paper but can not diagnose anything to save his life. He is just a parts exchanger that gets paid a lot and then has some excuse to tell the Service Advisor and they don't know better so they believe what he says. Example: 04 Tundra gets towed in for no start. He takes jump box out and starter "sounds" bad so he orders one. Next day when starter shows up, he removes intake and replaces starter. $816 and 2 hours later, truck has exact same problem. Now he has to find out what happened. Never did a starter draw test to see if it was bad. Found a loose wire in an aftermarket alarm system not closing relay properly and they backflagged him the full amount. ALWAYS asks me for help "what do you think about this?" I have stopped helping him and just either tell him "HMM...I don't know" or "Sorry, I am busy with my own work". He needs to move on down the road but can't fix anything anyway so he won't last anywhere else.

I see alot of techs coming from tech schools and they are lost.
I have one of them also.Blazer comes in with mass air code egr code and tps code.After the parts changer finishes his job and spends about 800.00 of parts and labor of someone elses money I get the truck.The Tps code was gone but the mass air and egr were still there.Truck has no power he says it needs a fuel pump .The first thing i did was back pressue test and he laughed at me.The he felt like a moron when I told him the cat was plugged. Another good one is when i first got my buick I believe it was 1990.The car was running like crap so I took it to a buick dealer in bensenville il.They had car for 3 days when they called and said car was fine and they could not find any problems with it A friend of mine told me to take it to Ans performance so I did.My car was not even there an hour and pete replaced the boost solenoid and walla the car was running much better.he also told me the fuel pump was weak.I did by the pump from him.Anyways I went back to the dealer and told them what ANS found.The writer tells me what do you expect they work on those cars all the time.I almost hit him.They did pay me back for repairs ans did:biggrin:

 

[GNeric]

I look at it as "they are all nuts and bolts". They all need air, fuel and spark to run so what is the difference. I came from a background of working on all makes and models so when I got to the dealership, I had the advantage over everyone else there. Even the guy who has been there 33 years. He can only do so much. I am not saying I am the best in the world but I have the most experience in the whole dealership and not just time-wise. I get work passed to me because someone else could not fix and gave up. I request the whole ticket amount...even what the other tech has invested in it since he could not do it. They get mad but I get the job done. We had a Rav4 come in with an SLT solenoid code and our "top producer" took 3 days to try and figure it out. Replace solenoid twice and after it was not fixed, they gave me the ticket. Found the little valve sleeve retainer had fallen out and valvetrain was pushed out of valve body. Cut a new, longer piece of metal to keep this from happening and installed the original solenoid and it fixed the trans. They just go for what the scanner says the problem is without diagnosis.