When my accumulator ball went bad it was very gradual, brake warning light lit up briefly with every pedal press and the pressure got weaker over time. Replaced the ball and everything was good for, oh, a coupla hundred miles or so. Then just recently the pump motor suddenly decided to quit, and I do mean suddenly. I was very lucky to not wreck my GN. Had to call AAA to take it home. I'm thinking very seriously about ditching this ridiculous PM and going vacuum. My Camaro has over three times the milage of the GN and the brakes are still strong and reliable.
Hard brake pedal when hit fast
- Thread starter jk kelly
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There have been many stories like yours. There has to be something wrong with the warning system, if the warning system worked properly you should in theory have a few stops in the ball before all hell brakes loose. You would need for ball and motor to die together which I would expect would be rare. Something must be fundamentally wrong with the warning system.
When the motor seized I did get a solid brake warning light, but everything seemed okay so I didn't know what was wrong at first. Then a few minutes later I got the hard pedal and almost complete loss of braking power. Luckily I had just dropped my niece off at a softball field and was slowly moving to the park exit. VERY lucky.
fastblackracing
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2009
- Messages
- 1,022
I had one fail when I was backing the car off the trailer from a day at the racetrack. Scary, but i guess the sun does shine on every dogs ass once in a while.
The pedal moved easily because there was still some stored pressure in the accumulator.The light comes on for only one reason,the pressure is dangerously low. When the light comes on and stays on,you have to park the car because that light is not kidding. There should be a stop the car NOW! light because it is that critical when that light stays on. You,most likely,have an internal leak also. With the leak and bad accumulator,your motor runs much more than you realize. All that extra run time shortens the life of the motor. Electric motors tend to quit with no warning. Because of this,it is so important to monitor the powermaster's performance periodically. If the pump is efficient,the system has no leaks,the high low pressure switch functions properly,and the accumulator is good,the motor turns on and off a minimum amount of times during use.
When my pump failed, I smelled something burning. That was better than the brake light coming on, which it did. I knew the accumulator was going bad as the motor ran on every pump of the brake pedal. Motor finally fried. Brought it back to AutoZone, Cardone rebuilt it and I sold it at a swap meet. Installed hydroboost and all is well.
interesting so in the end, the warning system does work, just not heeded as closely as it should be. The interesting part to me is that you hear many more stories of powermaster going back than vacuum assist. In all my years of driving and owning vehicle, of which I've had many, and some real crap boxes, I've never had a vacuum system fail, plenty of brake lines, but not a vacuum booster or master for that matter.
I do like the feel of my vacuum brakes though.
Joel
I do like the feel of my vacuum brakes though.
Joel
When my pump motor failed I did smell something burning near that area of the engine compartment when I popped the hood. And yeah, the only weird problem that I've had with my Camaro's brakes in over 215,000 miles was a seized caliper at over 150k. Car still stopped fine.
Correct,but we're not given an education on how it functions when we buy these cars. Again,that light should say "STOP OR I"LL SHOOT!!!". Should we have to take a class on how to maintain our master cylinders. I think not. I'm the kind of person who likes to tinker and I'm very familiar with how it works. I think the power master is just so cool. Because of that,I could never,nor do I want to ever,get rid of it.
During 120,000 miles of operation,I've had to replace two O-rings in the booster side of my Powermaster,one motor and pump assembly,and one accumulator.
Ttype- you should quit living in denial. The PM is crap and hopefully you won't figure it out when it is too late. I think I heard somewhere that the PM was a precurser for abs brakes. It was an experiment on GM's part that just didn't work. Cardone can't even rebuild them worth a damn. Went thru two of them after the original failed. We aren't talking about a defective head light here. We are talking about a part that your life depends on along with your passengers and everybody in the car ahead of you. I could just see you in the hospital (assuming you survive the wreck) explaining to the doctor..."yea doc, the accumulator couldn't hold the charge so my brake pedal went to the floor...blah blah blah...hey can you make a call for me to Kirban so I can buy more power master parts?" This would make a helluva cartoon that Kirban is selling, wouldn't it?
What is it that you want me to figure out. I'm intimately familiar with the Powermaster. I've owned my car since 1989. Years ago,I drove my car around for a few months with a dead Powermaster motor and have never made fun of anyone in the turbo Buick community for having poor leg strength.
Cardone can't build anything right including every MAF meter for our cars and two master cylinders for my S10. They have a long history of not being able to do good work.
Do you think the car will explode with a big mushroom cloud?
When the accumulator goes bad,the pedal doesn't move. The pedal goes to the floor when a brake line ruptures or a caliper seal or wheel cylinder seal leaks. Again,we're talking about a lack of understanding of how this system works.
I bought two O-rings from the auto parts store. I and my family and friends thank you for your concern.
Ttype6- I now I came off a bit harsh..but it's because I care! Actually my brake pedal went to the floor when the car was at the body shop. I know I didn't have a broken brake line. No I don't think the car will explode into a mushroom cloud...well it could if you are going 70mph on the freeway and you are getting sleepy and all of a sudden you notice the cars ahead are all stopped and you plan on pressing down on the brake pedal as you normally do.....and WHOA!!! NO BRAKES!!! 
I get both sides, there are a number of ways brakes can fail. I think it is safe to say the PM has a few more than most and it happens a bit more frequently. With that said, if TType is willing to assume the perceived risk and is confident he's got a process where he mitigates that risk, it is a fair choice to make. In the end, the lesson I've taken from this all is that upon first sign of PM issues, park the car and don't drive until sorted. I think many of us, me included, don't always heed the "park till sorted" with most things and get away with it, when dealing with the PM, you can't get away with it.
I really do appreciate your concern. Thank you.Ttype6- I now I came off a bit harsh..but it's because I care! Actually my brake pedal went to the floor when the car was at the body shop. I know I didn't have a broken brake line. No I don't think the car will explode into a mushroom cloud...well it could if you are going 70mph on the freeway and you are getting sleepy and all of a sudden you notice the cars ahead are all stopped and you plan on pressing down on the brake pedal as you normally do.....and WHOA!!! NO BRAKES!!!
It's biggest problem is the electric motor. Sooner or later it will fail. Not the best application for an electric motor. The best we can hope for is to make the motor last as long as possible by not allowing it to run so much. Again,sooner or later. When that light comes on and stays on (motor has failed or pump won't build pressure),you have one or two pumps left before it becomes extremely difficult to depress the pedal.
1980 Buick
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2009
- Messages
- 387
I was just "messing around" and unplugged my power-master brake switch (atop of the P/M unit) ... (just cleaning & "whatever")...
I discovered the switch had a small amount of oil inside it ! I later learned the Black colored switch's were re-called
and were changed to a "grey" or "upgraded" switch.
Researching further, I found a recall # (87-C-13) and called my Buick Dealer (as it states "no exploration date" in that text).
They found one on the Dealer Part Locator and their trying too get it to complete that recall.
"So long as parts are avail., will do it". I was AMAZED. The P/N was SS once, but they think it's still available. Also their
were some in AC Delco. (a short #)
So now I'm waiting. My car has 17,000 miles and it was STILL in the "system" ! I've heard of / about a vacuum conversion
and at some point, I may do one ... but for now, it's works perfectly.
I worked at this Dealership ... "I spose that helped my cause" .
** (T Type6 GREAT INFORMATION ! (thanks) !!!
I discovered the switch had a small amount of oil inside it ! I later learned the Black colored switch's were re-called
and were changed to a "grey" or "upgraded" switch.
Researching further, I found a recall # (87-C-13) and called my Buick Dealer (as it states "no exploration date" in that text).
They found one on the Dealer Part Locator and their trying too get it to complete that recall.
"So long as parts are avail., will do it". I was AMAZED. The P/N was SS once, but they think it's still available. Also their
were some in AC Delco. (a short #)
So now I'm waiting. My car has 17,000 miles and it was STILL in the "system" ! I've heard of / about a vacuum conversion
and at some point, I may do one ... but for now, it's works perfectly.
I worked at this Dealership ... "I spose that helped my cause" .
** (T Type6 GREAT INFORMATION ! (thanks) !!!
Actually,the black switch is the original. Is your current switch black or grey?I was just "messing around" and unplugged my power-master brake switch (atop of the P/M unit) ... (just cleaning & "whatever")...
I discovered the switch had a small amount of oil inside it ! I later learned the Grey colored switch's were re-called
and were changed to a "Black" or "upgraded" switch.
Researching further, I found a recall # (87-C-13) and called my Buick Dealer (as it states "no exploration date" in that text).
They found one on the Dealer Part Locator and their trying too get it to complete that recall.
"So long as parts are avail., will do it". I was AMAZED. The P/N was SS once, but they think it's still available. Also their
were some in AC Delco. (a short #)
So now I'm waiting. My car has 17,000 miles and it was STILL in the "system" ! I've heard of / about a vacuum conversion
and at some point, I may do one ... but for now, it's works perfectly.
I worked at this Dealership ... "I spose that helped my cause" .
** (T Type6 GREAT INFORMATION ! (thanks) !!!
