Hard brake pedal when hit fast

[1980 Buick]

BLACK NOW. (Op's)

 

[Ttype6]

ttype we were typing at the same time

Two guys typing at,the same time,when they should be working. Not to worry,Obama will take care of us.

 

[TommyV8]

Ttype6, you must be able to squat about 1,500 lbs if you can drive around with a dead Powermaster; it took all of the strength in my right leg to keep it from rolling down my slightly inclined street the other day when I just moved it in front of my house.

 

[Ttype6]

Ttype6, you must be able to squat about 1,500 lbs if you can drive around with a dead Powermaster; it took all of the strength in my right leg to keep it from rolling down my slightly inclined street the other day when I just moved it in front of my house.

It takes more than everything you have and it's not exactly the shortest stop ever.

 

[chopped39]

You cant stop with a dead power master in a hurry.Its like driving a hydroboost with a broken power steering pump. I bent my brake pedal and steering wheel when mine went out. The Lumina is what stopped me. The same on the Gnx in Ohio at the track. I beleive he bent his brake pedal and bent the steering wheel as well. I was only doing about 40 mph.He was doing 135+. When I worked for gm we hated these things.It was a poor design and we knew it.They would have recalled it but there was not enough cars sold with the system. It would have cheaper to have a few lawsuits than recall all the cars.Just like Ford and the pinto. Gns were not the only cars that came with these. They had these things in full size wagons as well. My car had low miles when mine went out and the brake fluid was changed once a year since new. My car had 12 k on it when I got it in 90 and my boss was the original owner. My system never gave me any problems until one day . That system is not safe and is unpredictable. You can test system per gm manual all you want but you will never know when its going to go out . To make a car original is the only way I would install one otherwise take it off and put it in a box in the corner where it belongs.

 

[1980 Buick]

You Guy's are "sinking my sail's here" ... I just keyed on my "T" and after 3 "normal pumps" The motor will run
for a few seconds, and then go off. (repeating this always yields the same result). So what is "everyone" saying here?
Abandon this system ? I've NEVER had any issue with mine, and it stops perfectly.

Their are "G" Bodies around here, should I convert ? (or go with a "kit" ???).

*Still no word about my "switch" issue I prefaced in the above in that 87-C-13 Campaign.
PLEASE BARACK ! "SAVE ME" !!

 

[87GNSteve]

The powermaster is pure junk. I remember having sudden failure on a 22,ooo mile GN in 1992. Nice to know it would be there one second and not the next, right? The whole convincing argument is that GM abandoned them and NEVER used them again.

 

[1980 Buick]

So I take it YOU converted ? (Too a Vacuum Type / System).

 

[87GNSteve]

Back then, I didnt know any better and threw money at it. But every car since then and there have been 5 now has had a vacuum conversion. Some I bought already converted and was relieved it was done already. I have even done a manual brake conversion on my current car.
No one is saying to throw your powermaster in the ocean just put it in a sealed box and store it for future geneartions to laugh at. And enjoy driving your car instead of feeling paranoid.
You can get these cars to stop great with modern brake pad materials, drilled and slotted discs and braided lines.

 

[gusszgs]

Of all cars to go with the Powermaster......GM chooses the TR
Kinda like storing a gallon of gas in your oven

 

[Ttype6]

So what is "everyone" saying here?

Everybody doesn't share the same opinion on this topic. Everyone is not saying. Some have entered into an educational and informative conversation about the Powermaster and turned it into a what's your opinion thread. This is the way this particular topic commonly ends up. The result is someone getting frightened and changing their master cylinder. Some are saying!

Your particular Powermaster is working very well. The motor comes on after three depressions of the pedal. This means your accumulator is working well and your pressure switch has a wide sweep of pressure between the turn off pressure and the turn on pressure. These two things play a key roll in preventing the motor from turning on as much as it would otherwise. That's a good thing. You say the motor doesn't run for a long time. This means your pump is efficient. That's also good because it also prevents the motor from coming on as much as it might otherwise. You also stated that it stops well. Your Powermaster is performing very well. A good test for internal leaks is to turn the ignition on and push the break pedal until the motor starts. Then do nothing and note how long it takes for the motor to start again without touching anything. The longer the better. It would be nice if you would post your findings in this thread. The thing that I would like you to walk away with is,when that light comes on,during normal operation, your Powermaster is becoming less efficient and needs to be looked at as soon as possible. If the light comes on and stays on,you need to pull over and stop immediately as you'll only have one or two easy break applications left at the most.

 

[1980 Buick]

OK. "I like original equip. stuff" ... If I can get the recall part replaced I'll be "cautiously optimistic".

The thing sounds and works great, the fluids clear (not Coke or Pepsi quoting Mr. Kirban) and I guess
I'll (myself personally) leave things alone for the time being.

I guess I never really realized this "system" was unique to only our Regal's (and some wagons).

 

[Ttype6]

OK. "I like original equip. stuff" ... If I can get the recall part replaced I'll be "cautiously optimistic".

The thing sounds and works great, the fluids clear (not Coke or Pepsi quoting Mr. Kirban) and I guess
I'll (myself personally) leave things alone for the time being.

I guess I never really realized this "system" was unique to only our Regal's (and some wagons).

When you install the new switch,test to see if the pedal can still be pushed three times before the motor comes on.

 

[chopped39]

OK. "I like original equip. stuff" ... If I can get the recall part replaced I'll be "cautiously optimistic".

The thing sounds and works great, the fluids clear (not Coke or Pepsi quoting Mr. Kirban) and I guess
I'll (myself personally) leave things alone for the time being.

I guess I never really realized this "system" was unique to only our Regal's (and some wagons).

If the system worked the way it was designed without any problems it would be great. We had a number of problems with them.Keeping the brake fluid clean is a must.
Gm should have had stainless lines on these cars to keep the fluid cleaner than it was.The copper mixes in with the fluid and it damages the system. Bleeding the system once a year is a big help. The big problem is the system needs to be maintained but even when you maintain them you will still have unpredictable problems.
One thing I dont recommend is using the reverse flush method with a power master system.Pheonix bleeding systems. It pushes all the crap right back in the system.
If you want to keep the power master its your choice but you have read the above posts. so you have been warned. Vacuum is a cheap replacement and hydroboost is better but then you have to worry about the power steering pump going out and Cardone pumps go bad all the time. Good luck with whatever you do and I hope your car doesnt end up looking like mine.

 

[1980 Buick]

OK .. So then the question would beg: "What's involved in a potential change-over too Vacuum" ?
Is everything the same ?, Is it just a matter of a vacuum source, or: is it more involved (like having to
change the metering valve and lines / like) ...

thanks in advance. / just kinda FYI here.

 

[Joeld]

Do a quick search I posted on this not long ago regarding my swap, there's also some good detailed write-ups.

1) Pump brake pedal until accumulator ball charge is totally depleted, pull out PM (not hard, just undo brake lines, unhook power plugs, remove four nuts under dash)
2) remove brake pedal (single bolt and nut), remove brake switch first or you will likely brake it like it did.
3) Install vacuum booster and master from G-body (I purchased at autozone looking for 1986 cutlas). (Bench bleed first)
4) Install brake pedal from G-body vacuum car, I pulled from 1986 cutlas at junk yard
5) either t-into the PVC vacuum line for vacuum or install vacuum black on top of intake with extra port for vacuum brakes (what I did).
6) Run Fuel line from vacuum block to vacuum booster.
7) bleed brakes
8) Take family out for icecream

Joel

 

[1980 Buick]

LOL "Thanks Joel" That's sure NICE of you too take the time to do this !
One small question: Why do you have to replace the Brake Pedal ? (what's different).

Did you mean 86 Olds Cutlass ? THANK-YOU AGAIN !!!

 

[Joeld]

No problem 1980, any G-body vacuum brake car should do. The connection points are different for the push-rod. I forget if the PM gets more or less leverage? Ttype or one of these guys will know off the top of their head (although ttype likes stock best ).
Here's a listing from Wikipedia
Vehicles
This family consisted of:

• Buick Regal (1982–1987)
• Chevrolet El Camino (1982–1987)
• Chevrolet Malibu (1978–1983)
• Chevrolet Monte Carlo (1970-1972)
• Chevrolet Monte Carlo (1982–1988)
• GMC Caballero (1982–1987)
• Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (1982–1988) note: 1988 model known as Cutlass Supreme Classic
• Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais (1982–1984)
• Oldsmobile Cutlass Cruiser (1982–1983)
• Oldsmobile Cutlass Salon (1986–1987)
• Pontiac Bonneville (1982–1986)
• Pontiac Grand Prix (1969-1972)
• Pontiac Grand Prix (1982–1987)

Joel

 

[Ttype6]

(although ttype likes stock best ).

True,but because of this I've never done a swap and don't know how they are different. I suppose the only thing that matters is that they are different.

 

[TommyV8]

1980, go to www.tomsttype.com and click the vacuum brake link on the left. It gives you a walkthrough, complete with pics and a parts lust.