Have you seen any '05 Mustang GT's on the street?

[Marc87GN]

Originally posted by Gn-ing
I drove a silver 05 GT last week,a friends car...and i ran it hard..comfortable and more roomy than the 04..engine felt strong up to about 5900...feels like a 14.00 car...I'll prob wait for the SVT version next yr...

The automatic cars have already been 13.6s which makes sense. The automatic 1st gear is in the 3.20s(3.22:1 I believe), 3.55 rear gears and with 5 gears, the rpm drop is minimal between shifts. That is some good torque multiplication out of the hole. I would bet anyone money with a converter and D/Rs, I could bust in the 12s with one easily.

As anyone that has been to a track knows, SOTP is not even close to accurate. The GN feels like a rocket out of the hole pulling stronger than a stock LS1 Z28, but runs low 14s stock. Plus people are beating on this cars when they are still new. Try driving them hard when they have about 5K miles on them.

This car is getting so much press it's not even funny. I remember all of the same assumptions when the 99 GT came out. Then when we were pushing them in the 10s less than 2 years later, all of the skeptics changed their tunes.

 

[turbofrank]

Two were at the track last week one ran 13.5 the other 14.5.
14.5 car still had dealer tags have seen a number of GTOs mid 14sec cars.

 

[ViciousV6]

Originally posted by Marc87GN
The Cobra has had 9.85:1 compression for years up until the 03. Many have had non intercooled Vortechs making over 440 rwhp with 8 psi. I would use an inercooler on any car with forced induction if it would fit, but it isn't absolutely necessary with a car with heads that flow incredible.

There have been several '99-'01 Cobra motors popped, due to excessive boost... some even with and intercooler.

As far as the ETC goes, this is a good thread about the upcoming Whipple blower for the 05.

05 Whipple

"I don't see how an aftermarket PCM can work with the ETC of the Mustang. The Corvette ETC is based off a completely different philosphy. The GM systems are used to open and close the throttle, not torque management. The Ford system is torque based. They have a certain % +/- the given torque level at a certain throttle position/MAF flow rate that the engine can see, if you exceed those %, the ETC will modify the air flow (decrease or increase) and possibly set a code."
-Dustin Whipple

"I don't meant to belittle what you are saying, but that's not the case. There is a lot more to ETC than just that. How do you think it limits the throttle? it's all done thru torque calcuations, expected airflow, etc. as you modify a vehicle all of that changes, thus the ETC no longer works correctly. If you ever see any pictures of prototype drive by wire vehicles shown at car shows, some of them have a big red button on the dash. Want to guess what that is for?

what do you think happens when you put a blower on an ETC car? I'll tell you, the monitor closes the thorottle body until the engine only outputs what is expected. It's a lot more than just changing a table to make it work right, and you do want the monitor to work right.
-Brian of SCT (formerly worked at Apten)

Anyhow, there's some good info in that thread.

Originally posted by Marc87GN
I would imagine that alot of these reactions to the drive by wire system are from people with no hands on experience with the system. It does nothing more than provide an electrical connection between the throttle and the throttle body or actuator vs a mechanical setup. It's on so many vehicles it's not even funny. They all work primarily the same way with a signal to the ECM and then another sent to a stepper motor on the throttle actuator. Any torque sensing is more related to the ECM algorithms and the drive by wire just allows the ECM to take control under certain conditions.

I wasn't saying the Ford ETC will make the car impossible to tune. However, it is different than a lot of ETC systems out there. We all know there are always initial hurdles to overcome with a new car. I was only making reference to the statement that you can go grab a blower for $4k and quickly have an 11sec car. I think we will eventually see that, but it's gonna take a bit of R&D and some money.

Originally posted by Marc87GN
The tuners are always having problems with new setups. The Returnless fuel system on the 99-Up was an issue for a short time. Maybe people should try leaving them alone and driving them before scattering that very expensive 5 speed auto and 4.6.

The returnless fuel systyem is still a problem. Any big HP cars have long-since gone return style. There has been a lot of progress with the returnless, but it's just not nearly as reliable as a return style.

 

[GNVAIR]

Knowing the way a lot of the Mustang guys are, someone will probably come out with a set up to revert back to a cable actuated throttle and someone will find a patch to remove the ETC from the ecm calibration.

 

[ViciousV6]

On a side note...
while talking to the parts guy at a local Ford dealer, I just found out the Buick dealership owns 2 GNx cars! I plan on stopping by and being friendly.

 

[Raven]

"2" GNX's? Wow!

Originally posted by ViciousV6
On a side note...
while talking to the parts guy at a local Ford dealer, I just found out the Buick dealership owns 2 GNx cars! I plan on stopping by and being friendly.

Let me know if one of them is GNX build # 281.

 

[Marc87GN]

The returnless fuel systyem is still a problem. Any big HP cars have long-since gone return style. There has been a lot of progress with the returnless, but it's just not nearly as reliable as a return style. [/B][/QUOTE]

I wasn't really including guys that run big hp because usually you end up buidling the entire car if you are going to do it right and not worry about the next weakest link breaking. It was quite easy to run deep into the 11s with the returnless fuel system and some went 10s so I wouldn't say it's a problem. Even with return lines, the factory lines are usually not large enough anyway and are bypassed when seeking big hp.

The trans in my GN is already slipping in 3rd gear and on the way out and I haven't put any real power through it. I will be busy over the winter rebuilding it.

The 05 GT will be easy to put into the 11s with a poweradder and low boost. If my stock longblock can go 10s the first time out with the turbo on stock 2V heads, with the 3V heads, it's even easier.


Also those broken engines was probably more of a result of poor tuning and detonation than actual power breaking the parts. Low compression with boost and a poor tune can break parts. We see that with all of the head gaskets spitting out on this board.

 

[ViciousV6]

Originally posted by Marc87GN
I wasn't really including guys that run big hp because usually you end up buidling the entire car if you are going to do it right and not worry about the next weakest link breaking. It was quite easy to run deep into the 11s with the returnless fuel system and some went 10s so I wouldn't say it's a problem. Even with return lines, the factory lines are usually not large enough anyway and are bypassed when seeking big hp.

The FRPS is a serious problem with returnless. Whether you're running 13s or 10s, if that think pops, you're in deep ****. I agree that the returnless is capable of running 10s, and even 9s... kinda the same way 009 injectors are capable of running 10s. Just b/c it's possible, doesn't make it the best path to take.

Originally posted by Marc87GN
The trans in my GN is already slipping in 3rd gear and on the way out and I haven't put any real power through it. I will be busy over the winter rebuilding it.

If you can get the tranny to Vince Janis, in Ohio, I highly suggest it. That was probably the best investment I made in my GN.

Originally posted by Marc87GN
The 05 GT will be easy to put into the 11s with a poweradder and low boost. If my stock longblock can go 10s the first time out with the turbo on stock 2V heads, with the 3V heads, it's even easier.

I agree the 3V heads will flow even better. I don't know that I'd call it easy, but it will certainly be a much more capable motor than the 2V. I'd like to know the combo of your turbo 2V, as it sounds like one wicked car.

Originally posted by Marc87GN
Also those broken engines was probably more of a result of poor tuning and detonation than actual power breaking the parts. Low compression with boost and a poor tune can break parts. We see that with all of the head gaskets spitting out on this board.

A bad tune can certainly break something a lot quicker, but the best tune won't help when parts are pushed to their limits. Not to mention, the perfect tune doesn't eliminate the posibility of detonation. I agree that most of the broken engines were due to the tune, but I've seen several cases that just found the weak spot in a high compression motor. If you haven't seen the Cometic gaskets that Ford is putting in the 4V cars, they're far superior to the factory Buick pieces. It's a lot easier to lift a head in the 3.8, but I certainly see the point you're trying to make.

 

[87GN_ponykillr]

I have seen a Red GT and a Mineral GT and a green (ugly) v6

 

[BlownZ]

I drove a white stick shift Gt today.

Handles nice.

Rides Nice.

Interior is cheap...kind of like a GN interior. Plastic.

For 27k it seems like a decent deal to me. It looked easy to work on and I like the retro design.

I might go back Monday and buy one.

 

[Anthony K]

have see them every other day for like the past year/ year and a half, but thats because my friend is a Ford driveability dork, i have vid of the mules ( zebra/bra cars ) at Milan dragway and proving grounds doing 200' burnouts, and jumping 4/5' ramps!!

 

[Pablo]

Originally posted by Marc87GN
The slow throttle response had nothing to do with the drive by wire and more to do with the adaptive features of the ECM and the automatic. The different computers learn quickly the habits of the driver. Also most people would hit the winter mode button and not even know it. Almost all of the 96-up models have the S/W buttons right next to the shifter.

Not to mention the ESP(Electronic Stability Program) might have kicked in and taken some of the throttle away because the tires might have started to spin on the more powerful MB vehicles you drove. It reacts very quickly.

There could be many reasons for the sluggish performance with none of them related to the drive by wire.

I think with all that accounted for there must be something, maybe some buffering of the throttle opening via the software, a low rpm torque converter, etc, because I have driven every mercedes commonly available and they still were not very "responsive" some may have been fast as hell but they tended to feel like my T type compared to my firebird. You floor it and it kinda settles into this rush of acceleration whereas the bird just instantly opens a can of whoopass at the slightest pedal movements.

I noticed that BMWs had a similar feeling but not quite as bad as the mercedes.
The low end porsches like the boxter did too, however 911s did not, those were straight up brutal.

I always figured the market for the boxter, mercedes, and BMW were for the kind of people that werent too keen on anything occurring "abruptly" when they drove. Might spill some cafe latte on their versace.

Maybe im out of my mind.

 

[Marc87GN]

Originally posted by Pablo
I think with all that accounted for there must be something, maybe some buffering of the throttle opening via the software, a low rpm torque converter, etc, because I have driven every mercedes commonly available and they still were not very "responsive" some may have been fast as hell but they tended to feel like my T type compared to my firebird. You floor it and it kinda settles into this rush of acceleration whereas the bird just instantly opens a can of whoopass at the slightest pedal movements.

I noticed that BMWs had a similar feeling but not quite as bad as the mercedes.
The low end porsches like the boxter did too, however 911s did not, those were straight up brutal.

I always figured the market for the boxter, mercedes, and BMW were for the kind of people that werent too keen on anything occurring "abruptly" when they drove. Might spill some cafe latte on their versace.

Maybe im out of my mind.

I think we are all a little out of our minds. I already drove a customers SL55 (with his permission) to consistent mid 12s at 115+ mph. This was bone stock and well over 4K lbs. It felt like it was plenty fast.

My friend called me a few days ago from the dealer where I worked the SL65 with the twin turbo charged V8 moves much faster than the SL55. I didn't ask how he knew. . Those AMG cars make more torque at 2400 rpms than you can imagine. I also drove all of them because I went to the MB ELITE program for 4 months in Orlando and learned about them from end to end not to mention working for the dealer for a few years.

I have read that the SL65 runs high 11s @ 120 mph bone stock off of the showroom floor. Not bad for a car on pump gas, passes emissions with 0.00 or 0.01. Based on my experience wit hthe SL55, It's probably very accurate. Very expensive? yes, but world class all around performance and comfort.

 

[Marc87GN]

Damn, my friend that owns an SL65 just sent me the video of his car running bone stock - 11.7 @ 126 in cool air. That's insane for any car off of the showroom floor and 50 state emissions legal. I know that the drivetrains are bulletproof on the AMG models so it could probably do that all day. Regardless of how you feel, 126 on pump gas from the factory beats many highend cars including the 911TT. With D/Rs that car is in the bottom of the 11s if not high 10s.

 

[LSTTYPE]

I have to say that IM ipressed with both the mustang's looks and performance potential. Hot Rod has an artical with one deep into the 12s on slicks.