Heads

[forcfed]

Can anyone give me the pros and cons with using stock ported heads against using the champion ported heads???(iron)what differences are there if any?I am building a new motor and would like to know if it is worth spending the money for new heads if the stockers(ported and polished)are done professonally by my machine shop???

I have had the block bored .035 over and billet caps installed,line bored,new cam bearings,rod bearings,arp rod bolts,the entire assembly was blueprinted and balanced.....and such

 

[artrenee10]

Ill offer what I do know

Champs Irons flow much better than stockers even when ported polished, big valves, new springs etc etc, the only drawback to using champs is the cost.By the time you are done getting the heads, roller rockers, intake manifold ported to match the heads you are probably into the intake alone for about 2 grand. Porting and polishing the stockers are cost effective. However if you can get some preliminary flow numbers on your stockers and get a set of flow numbers from champion. From then on you should be able to make a better determination. I am in the same boat as you, I was crossed on using champs vs stockers. I decided to go with the champs though for performance rather than cost.
Hope this helps
Steve Chambers

 

[frankg]

I disagree!!! Champions do not flow any better than a good set of hand ported irons. I don't know where you got that information but it's wrong. Champion irons flow between 200-205cfm and the last set i sold that were hand ported flowed 207cfm and they still had some room left for better #'s. Some have flowed above 215cfm. Frank

 

[forcfed]

So you are saying ported stock heads will flow as good as the champions???Even w/the stock valves?

 

[steve hughes]

The iron Champions ARE ported stock heads. They are done on cnc machine.

 

[gtokid1]

Considering the same components are used the difference is between the machine and the man doing the head work.
This is only my opinion.

John

 

[forcfed]

What size are the exh and intake valves on the champions vs.stockers?

 

[artrenee10]

Ok

Once again, my main point is that was my opinion. Frank, I know you are a good headman (is that even a term?) and from what I have read about you, you do excellent work, but not all heads are going to flow the same b/c as GTO kids said, its the person who is actually doing the work, if you reread my post I offered the guy of doing a COMPARISON in my own opinion a set of brand new out of the box champ irons sit well in my mind as far as performance. Many people have had success with both and some people prefer one to another, me personally I would prefer champs .........but that is just me
Not trying to rip anyone, but just offering my opinion and hell if Im wrong, Im wrong
Take it easy.
Steve Chambers

 

[frankg]

No hand ported stock valve size heads will not flow better than Champion Irons but Big valve hand ported heads, DONE BY SOMEONE WHO KNOWS, should always flow better. Stock valve size 1.71" bigger intake valve size used by Champion and others 1.77" The reason i say hand ported should ALWAYS flow better if ported correctly is, The CNC Champion Irons are done by a machine that works off of a program that cuts them all the same no matter which head you put on it, so when the program was designed they had to go a little on the conservative side to give room for any casting flaws or shifts in the Stock GM 3.8 8445# heads. When a porter does it by hand he can go a bit farther because he works on each runner one at a time. Champion heads are good but do not "flow much better" as stated above if the porter knows his work. Hope this helps. Frank

 

[azgn]

my ported irons flowed 210.......(not Champions)....1.77 valves

all Champion offers is off the shelf convenience....spend the same $$ with a guy that knows what he is doing and you will be ahead of the game

most folks won't do that or can't find someone that knows what to do...

 

[turbowrenchhead]

Also remeber that no two flow benches are the same.

 

[artrenee10]

Good Information......

Good information, decide which direction is comfortable for you, I still say do a comparison, and Frank I wasn't trying to step on your toes, and if you are offended, well then, try not to take it too personally
Good Luck and Have Fun No Matter which Direction you go in.
Thanks
Steve Chambers

 

[frankg]

Steve, no you didn't offend me. I wasn't trying to bitch at you, i just want people to get all the facts. Champions can be a smart way to go for some but for the best performance for the $$$ a good hand porter is best!!! Frank

 

[forcfed]

Thank you

Thanks guys....this is a great group of people with alot of knowledge.I think I am going to give the heads to my machine shop because I have 2 sets of heads(one set off 87 motor and one set off 84 motor)It seems that my machinist is very knowledgable in 3.8 turbo heads.
Thanks again...
P.S If anybody wants the heads off the 84 motor let me know....they have new 100lb valve springs/seals and hardened rocker shafts.Make me an offer

You can call me @ 1.516.354.8473 Days

Thanks again,
Doug