Help with Scanmaster 2.1 readings

[9daysbefore]

I finally got the Scanmaster hooked up. I drove it for 30 miles today and got the folllowing readings. I got the Idle set and the TPS set with the scanmaster before taking it for a drive but it is still running poorly. After about 10 miles into the trip the car hesitates and chugs when slowing down or giving it gas. Any help would be great.

Warmed up and at Idle
AF 05
L8 38-41
INT 122-132
bL 132
cLt 193
Ats 109
rpm 650-700
tps .44
IAC 46
cc 00-250 (this keeps resetting to "0" and cycling again to 250 - over and over)
naL 23 / 34
bat 13.3
O2 250 - 675

Warmed up at 57mph
AF 23
L8 66-71
int 118-130
bL 118
cLt 175
Ats 81
tps 92 @ 57mph
IAC 77-84
cc 00-250 (this keeps resetting to "0" and cycling again to 250 - over and over)
naL 23-34
O2 91-742 cruise control set

Thank you,

Brian

 

[d0n_3d]

that nal reading is supposed to be MAL or malfunction codes...you have 23 and 34 which are air temperature sensor readings low and mass air flow sensor low...do you have a stock MAF sensor on the car? if so I bet it's bad...unplug it at idle and see if the car idles better....if it does the MAF sensor is bad...have you been getting engine light coming on?

all the other readings look normal to me btw...

 

[9daysbefore]

Yes I do have a stock MAF sensor on the car. I have not tried un-hooking the MAF sensor after the car has warmed up. I did try the MAF sensor unplugged at IDLE before it warmed up and it idled up and down. When I plugged it back in it idled better but not great. When it was at IDLE with the MAF sensor unplugged the "Check engine light" came on. This went away after I plugged it back in.

While driving it I haven't been getting the check engine light.

Code #23 - is that telling me that the air temp sensor is bad?

What is "cc" on the scanmaster?

Thank you,

Brian

 

[d0n_3d]

1. The stock style MAF sensor CAN be still bad with no engine light on. Might want to check your AF reading during cruise. If it skips around while driving, it's bad. If you let the car warm up idling, then tap the MAF sensor with a screwdriver, and the idle changes, it's bad. Even new reman MAF sensors are junk. Trust me I know...I went through 6 of them before I got fed up and went the LS1 sensor route with a translator and then I went MAFless with the translator Pro setup. Wow that made the car run so much better.

2. Looks like your air temp reading is OK. Try unplugging the orange wire by the battery for 10 seconds, then replug it. That is your computer wire. You want to reset the computer so it has no codes showing. Look at your scanmaster after you start the car up again and see if you get any mal codes showing. If not then don't worry about anything except the MAF sensor.

3. If the MAF IS good (which I doubt)...you could have a bad coilpack (back of the motor). If it's misfiring, it won't really give you an engine code.

4. CC on the scanmaster is "O2 sensor Cross Counts" which is a reading telling you how fast the stock o2 sensor is cycling between rich and lean...basically if the numbers cycle from 0-255 in ascending order while idling and cruising warm...that is normal...if they stop or show 0...your 02 sensor is dead

 

[Dreamcar86]

What chip are you currently running? Your idle sure is low. Most of the chips these days are set at 800 - 850 RPM.

 

[9daysbefore]

Thank you for the replies.

I will give the suggestions a try tomorrow and repost my findings.

As for the "Chip" - it is stock (87 GN). Everything is stock on the car - except the scanmaster now.

Should the IDLE be higher? If so, how does one make that adjustment correctly?

Thank you,

Brian

 

[d0n_3d]

How many miles are on it? Has anything been replaced that you know of?

To adjust the idle higher...there is an IAC reset procedure you can do. I'll dig it out of my "papers" tomorrow. It's not the normal IAC resetting procedure everyone is used to doing. This involves shorting out a couple pins on the ALDL port under the radio and putting the car in open loop. More to come...check out that MAF sensor first though.

 

[9daysbefore]

I will look for the post from you Don on resetting the IDLE. Thank you again.

My car is a 1987 GN with 40,000 miles on it. Nothing has been done to it that I am aware of. The original owner said that nothing was done to it anyway. I haven't found anything yet either.

Thanks,

Brian

 

[Dreamcar86]

Thank you for the replies.

I will give the suggestions a try tomorrow and repost my findings.

As for the "Chip" - it is stock (87 GN). Everything is stock on the car - except the scanmaster now.

Should the IDLE be higher? If so, how does one make that adjustment correctly?

Thank you,

Brian

You will want to change the chip. Technology has changed drastically in the past 20 years and a fresh chip will certainly make the car run smoother and better. You have to realize that the fuel at the pump was better 20 years ago than it is today. The chip will also set your idle. In fact it may clear up several of your problems. I run a TurboTweak chip and they are only $85.00 there are other good chips out there if you want to look around.
Hope this is helpful. Good luck and let us know if we can help any questions.

 

[9daysbefore]

I ran the car today so that I could try resetting the codes and mess with the MAF sensor. The codes did reset but the MAF test didn't really show much. I tapped on the MAF sensor after it had warmed up - which took a while due to it not wanting to run correctly. Tapping on the MAF sensor did not change the way the car idled. I unplugged the MAF sensor several times to see if this would make a difference. A couple of times the car idled better but then a couple of times it idled worse. While hooking the MAF sensor back up once, it actually made the car die. I did not get the car on the road to see if the AF reading was flucuating.
As for the chip - I have been thinking about getting a new one from TurboTweak. Just haven't yet. I was trying to get the car running correctly before making those changes but that may not happen due maybe my chip is the problem.
I do appreciate the help that all have given. I hope that you will still find the time to help me through this situation. There isn't anybody around this area that works on these cars and I can not stand not having this car run correctly. My first GN never had any issues and was fun to drive. That is what I am hoping will happen with this one also. One thing for sure is that I am learning more about it through this.

Thank you again,

Brian

 

[GNRick]

Just a couple thoughts-if you recently bought the car, I would replace the spark plugs, wires (keep them if they are original numbered wires-don't throw them out as they will be valuable for car shows), and air cleaner. Also, replace brake fluid if it hasn't been done in the past year or two or you will be in the market for a new powermaster motor. I had a TPS sensor that appeared to work properly with "key on". However, at a WOT run, the voltage dropped off and then picked up. I saw it on my OTC 4000 that everybody likes to bash. The car also hesitated. A new TPS sensor fixed it. I wouldn't replace the chip until you get the problems fixed. I have two GN's with the stock chip and they both run fine. I have one of Eric's chips in my third GN and I like it, but I wouldn't introduce it to your car until you get it running good. You might also want to verify that your fuel pressure is good. I have been recommending the fuel pressure gauge from Casper's https://www.casperselectronics.com/...creen=PROD&Product_Code=102070&Category_Code=
that can be taped to your windshield when you want to check your pressure, and then tucked out of the way by your powermaster when you want the "stock" look.

 

[Dreamcar86]

I ran the car today so that I could try resetting the codes and mess with the MAF sensor. The codes did reset but the MAF test didn't really show much. I tapped on the MAF sensor after it had warmed up - which took a while due to it not wanting to run correctly. Tapping on the MAF sensor did not change the way the car idled. I unplugged the MAF sensor several times to see if this would make a difference. A couple of times the car idled better but then a couple of times it idled worse. While hooking the MAF sensor back up once, it actually made the car die. I did not get the car on the road to see if the AF reading was flucuating.
As for the chip - I have been thinking about getting a new one from TurboTweak. Just haven't yet. I was trying to get the car running correctly before making those changes but that may not happen due maybe my chip is the problem.
I do appreciate the help that all have given. I hope that you will still find the time to help me through this situation. There isn't anybody around this area that works on these cars and I can not stand not having this car run correctly. My first GN never had any issues and was fun to drive. That is what I am hoping will happen with this one also. One thing for sure is that I am learning more about it through this.

Thank you again,

Brian

It is never a bad idea to do a little spring cleaning since this car is new to you. Have you checked out this site? The Grand National / T-Type / Turbo Regal Buick Spring Cleaning Guide Also here are the parameters that you are looking for. Quick Reference Page For the '86/'87 Turbo Regals and '89 Turbo T/A
Always start with the basics and work your way forward.

 

[9daysbefore]

Need some more help

I was fighting a code #34 which I took care of by buying a different stock MAF. That took care of that code and the car idles better.

I put this on the car when I got it out of storage last week. It drove fine for about 5 miles until I got to a stop sign. When I left the stop sign the car started to surge when giving it gas. At this time my friend that was behind me in his car said that a lot of black smoke came out of my exhaust. At that time code #45 showed up on the Scanmaster.

When I would finally get up to speed the car would maintain the speed but would sputter every now and then. That is when black smoke would come out of the exhaust again. When I got it home I turned the car off and unhooked the orange wire at the battery for awhile. After hooking it back up I started the car and the code #45 showed up again.

Is there a reason that this would have shown up all of a sudden?
Is it a bad O2 sensor?

While driving, the O2 readings were jumping all over the place, from 40 to 847. The reading never did stay consistant. The car was warmed up before I left the storage unit as it ran for 10 minutes before I left.

I have not driven it since as I do not want to damage anything.

Your help would be great.

9daysbefore

 

[MikeL.]

Where did you get the replacement maf? If you bought it aftermarket ie (Autozone, Pepboys etc) those typically are junk and never work like they are intended. You need to get a known good stock buick maf to completely rule that out.

Second, code 45 is your O2 sensor relaying to the computer that it's overly rich, hence the black smoke coming from your exhaust periodically. This could be caused by your replacement maf relaying a higher than present airflow reading. Again the maf may not throw a code indicating it's bad, but the calibration could be, and usually is, way off.

Return the new maf, get a known good factory buick maf sensor and try again. See if there are any fellow TR guys in your area that may lend you a good maf so you can rule that out.

I'd also get a turbo tweak chip and deep six the stock unit.

Keep this in your favorites....Malfunction Codes Reference

 

[MikeL.]

...also, give us a quick rundown of your buick. It sounds like it's bone stock. If so, you may want to replace plugs, plug wires, and a new O2 sensor.

 

[9daysbefore]

The new MAF that I put on is a stock sensor that I bought from a fellow buick member on this forum. That individual has been rated excellent by many and all of the members that have bought from him. I was told that it was in excellent condition and known to be in good working order. I know, maybe it isn't but just letting you all know what was said.

Should I put my original MAF sensor on (which was giving me code 34) and see if the code 45 goes away along with the black smoke?

As for my car..Yes it is bone stock. I will be changing out my plugs and plug wires soon. As for the chip, it was recommended on this forum to get the car running correctly before going with a new chip.

Should I have a TurboTweak chip made for my stock conditions at this time?

Thank you,

9daysbefore

 

[VadersV6]

Wiggle each wire going to the MAF as it idles and see if it changes. Do the same to the wires at the white connector (fuel injection harness) behind the coil pack, and also wiggle the orange power wire at the battery...these wires are 20 years old and you wouldnt believe how many problems Ive fixed by making new harnesses instead of just wasting all my money on new hardware trying to unscientifically chase down problems. You can get a remanufactured autozone MAF for like 45 bucks which works great assuming the wiring to it is good. I have one. I had an intermittent MAF issue. I made a whole new wire harness which cleaned up the idle for a week and then the whole thing fell on its face. The MAF itself went bad after that...these little hair thick, resistance welded wires that go from the pin to the circuit board in the MAF, break and cant be soldered back on.
I cant stress enough, that you adjust and/or replace as many sensors as you can, and any wire harness end section that gets handled the most, should be torn apart, wires trimmed back, pins soldered back on, etc...the strands that make up the wire, after 20 years of ****ing with them will cause them to crack and split and break inside (but you cant see underneath the insulation) and you replace hardware when its the wiring thats bad/intermittent/high resistance/corroded strands.
By the way, for 3 years I had a code 45 all the time, despite my O2 readings always looking ok. After making a new MAF harness and a reman MAF, that code went away forever.

 

[BW Jones]

'9daysbefore' purchased the MAF sensor from me. it is a stock GM (BW code) unit that was in excellent condition (not aftermarket, not remanufactured, etc). if there were any issues with the sensor, i would have never offered it to him. i am confident that the cause of his code 45 is not because of the MAF sensor.

it would be very valuable in diagnosing his current problem if he would post some current scanmaster readings and information regarding his car's build. the scanmaster readings listed at the beginning of this thread were from july of 2007 when he was battling a different code (problem).

please post up some current data and it will help with the troubleshooting.:wink:

bw jones

 

[BW Jones]

what happened to the code 23? is it still present or did it go away (and if gone, when did it go)? did you change the MAT sensor? there's no reason for the code 23 to go away by changing the MAF sensor. i would suspect a possible wiring problem (as described by VadersV6) or maybe even a problem with the ECM (although less likely).

also, i believe i would replace the 02 sensor to eliminate it as a source of any difficulty. the cross counts should not stay in the 0-10 range for any extended period of time when the car is in closed loop.

bw jones

 

[9daysbefore]

BW Jones, thank you for your posts.

I have not been able to get the car out and drive it due to either working or it is raining. Anyway, will driving the car as it is (with it blowing the black smoke) hurt the motor? Hopefully I can get the car out at the end of this week and see what numbers the Scanmaster is giving me (and then report them here).

As for the car, it is stock (except for the battery). Code #23 went away last year when I was trying to troubleshoot the MAF. I do believe that I didn't have a very good connection as I did have the air cleaner out for cleaning. If I remember correctly I was able to push the connector in further and the Code has been gone since.

I know that I need to put spark plugs and plug wires on it (doing that as soon as I can).

Thank you,

9daysbefore