Hi! I'm New and I really need help! 85GN

[85HotAirGN]

Hi guys. I'm new to the boards. I really need help or advice, all opinions are welcome...

I'm looking at a 1985 BUICK Grand National. The car only has 45,685 miles on it. The guy is selling it for $5500 which I think is pretty fair. The only thing holding me back from completing the sell is that the car will turn over but won't crank. He said he hasn't driven it in 7-8 months, and that was the last time he put fresh gas in the car. The car has obivously been sitting, it's been tucked away in a paint shop under a cover beside the paint booth.

He has told me that the cam sensors were replaced, he's check for spark, it getting fuel (purge the fuel rail), said he's had a coil put on before he parked it. Told me the coil came off just a plain 85 Regal. Said it ran fine with that coil.

The car will turn over and even fire for a second, then it will die out. You can even smell the burnt fuel from turning over through the exhaust.

I'm afraid to let it slip away for $5500 for this maybe insignificant fix. Does anybody have any ideas or suggestions? Could it just be bad fuel? Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks guys,
Justin

 

[ES1]

Go to trouble shooting on this link

Vortex Turbo Buick Performance

The info may be for an 86-87 but it may help on a 85.

 

[85HotAirGN]

I'll check it out. thanks.

Anymore ideas out there?

 

[krom415]

Check out the hot air part of this forum there's a sticky w/info on no start ..lots of info on this board

 

[GNguy]

You might want to make sure that the odometer has not rolled over once.......

 

[artrenee10]

Don't know the particulars of hot air cars..but I am pretty sure you could start with the coil as being an obvious culprit...also check and make sure the injectors are firing correctly....

 

[novaderrik]

You might want to make sure that the odometer has not rolled over once.......

that's easy enough to tell- just look at the general condition of things like carpet, seat upholstery, and suspension bushings. my 84 had 58,000 miles on it when i got it, and it definitely looked like a low mileage car.
that coil that he put on it probably didn't come from a "regular regal"- the turbo cars were the only ones that used that coil pack. regular Regals all had HEI distributor ignition systems in them.
does the ecm work? turn the key on and see if the "engine" light comes on. if not, the ecm probably isn't working. might just be a fuse, or the power pin on the ecm rusted away like mine did last summer- in which case the fix is a $40 ecm from the junkyard and a $85 chip from Turbo tweak...
if the ecm is working, then maybe look at the crank sensor and make sure the new cam sensor is properly installed.

 

[85HotAirGN]

The car is definately a original mile car. It looks practically new on the inside and it has a nearly immaculant body. undercarriage and just general condition throughout looks as advertised.

The seller called me this morning and said that he took the air intake off and tried spraying a squirt of starting fluid in the vehicle. The car fired up and he told me that he was going to buy a fuel pressure gage... COULD THE CULPRIT POSSIBLY BE THE FUEL PUMP?

Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[RobS]

The first thing I would check is the label on the inside of the trunklid. LM9 is turbo engine. WE2 is Grand National Package. The vin on this label should match the label on the dash. The 8th vin digit should be a 9. Does this engine have a distrubitor? It should have a coilpack. Trunk labels can be reproduced. Does the label look original? Here is some vin info Turbo Regal Vehicle Identification Numbers

Good luck

 

[ANDYS87]

I bet its the cam sensor. Don't know about the 85's....but 86 and 87's have a special tool/procedure to install correctly.

When the key is turned(before starting) can you hear the fuel pump prime(run a few seconds?). If there is always fuel pressure at the rail, I wouldnt worry about the pump.

If this was my car, I'd check that the coil is the right one, that the plug wires were installed correctly back on the coil!!!!, check the install of the cam sensor, pull a plug to see what it looks like and check for spark, check for fuel(listen for the pump prime and check for pressure at the rail). Find out if he did anything else while it was in storage. For good measure, siphon the old gas out and put some new in.

Let us know what happens. It's probably something really simple! And for that price/condition, sounds like a good buy(if it isnt anything major).

 

[ANDYS87]

where are you located? Maybe one of the members here could look at it for you on a weekend. I'd help you out if you were in my area!

 

[ANDYS87]

I just looked it up, and the cam sensors are the same for 84-87 turbo regals. So, the easy way to set, is to get the casper's cam sensor tool. It just plugs in and when the red LED comes on, it is set. Or, follow the instructions to the link below............

Cam Sensor Information


That cam sensor tool is sold by various vendors. I am looking at the one that Poston's sells. It is part #C102075 ($29.88- on page 90 of catalog). I've also seen it at Kirbans, etc

 

[85HotAirGN]

I'm fairly positive I remember him saying that he had the cam sensor replaced before he parked it.

I live in Augusta GA

 

[85HotAirGN]

Is there any possibility that the gas just isn't any good after sitting up for 8 months

 

[ANDYS87]

Even if the sensor was replaced...there is a very good possibility that whoever did it just took the old one off and put the new one on, not knowing it has to be set up correctly! Read the manual adjustment procedure link in my above message....

I wouldn't think the gas is bad after 8 months. I've had cars sit longer with no problems. Its not the cause of your problem(I dont think), but it wouldnt hurt to replace it!

I'm from New York....maybe someone from your area will see this.

 

[85HotAirGN]

Even if the sensor was replaced...there is a very good possibility that whoever did it just took the old one off and put the new one on, not knowing it has to be set up correctly! Read the manual adjustment procedure link in my above message....

I wouldn't think the gas is bad after 8 months. I've had cars sit longer with no problems. Its not the cause of your problem(I dont think), but it wouldnt hurt to replace it!

I'm from New York....maybe someone from your area will see this.

Ok I will definately ask the seller if he knows for sure that the Cam sensor was set correctly. Or if he had it replace before or after he last drove the car.

I hate the let the car slip away because it doesn't crank. I'm afraid that some of the other buyers will know exactly how to fix what's wrong and it will only be something simple, and I'm going to miss my opportunity. I had a '87 GN with only 32K back 3 yrs ago, and it's something have regreted ever since (selling).

 

[85HotAirGN]

Ok guys I have some new information. the car is pushing 24psi of fuel pressure at turn of key and then 37psi at start. Car was running after new cam sensor were installed.

any ideas with this new information??

 

[85HotAirGN]

Ok guys I have some new information. the car is pushing 24psi of fuel pressure at turn of key and then 37psi at start. Car was running after new cam sensor were installed.

any ideas with this new information??

In addition to this...with the car having spark and fuel. What are the odds of this being an injector pulse issue. What are the troubleshooting options if this is the problem?

 

[Esasky's85GN]

The cam sensor is used to set the "timing" per say on the SFI. Basically the cam sensor tells the computer to fire the fuel injectors sequentially (sp?) at a certain time after #1 Top dead center. If it is set to 25 degrees ATDC, that means the ECU will initate injector firing @ 25 degrees ATDC on cylinder #1. If it is not set properly, the car will spit and sputter or not start at all. I would think it may be that cam sensor as well also. Even if the cap is the only part pulled, it still may need adjustment. 27 PSI is a little low as well. Static pressure @ fuel pump priming should higher than that. Just my .02 cents.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[85HotAirGN]

The cam sensor is used to set the "timing" per say on the SFI. Basically the cam sensor tells the computer to fire the fuel injectors sequentially (sp?) at a certain time after #1 Top dead center. If it is set to 25 degrees ATDC, that means the ECU will initate injector firing @ 25 degrees ATDC on cylinder #1. If it is not set properly, the car will spit and sputter or not start at all. I would think it may be that cam sensor as well also. Even if the cap is the only part pulled, it still may need adjustment. 27 PSI is a little low as well. Static pressure @ fuel pump priming should higher than that. Just my .02 cents.

Thanks,

Chris

What should the standard pressure at priming be? I've read that 36/37 is about normal for engine on.

Anyone know if there is a drain plug on the '85 GN fuel cell?


Best to buy a factory replacement cam sensor, or reproduction?

What is the best cam sensor tool?