high 11's possible on pump gas ???
- Thread starter fugitive
- Start date
streetknight
DCVING
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
I agree with running her till she breaks aspect. That's what I'm trying to do. I desperately want to change converters, but what's the point when I can't afford a rebuild on the tranny and it IS going to break once you start racing the car.
Sure your goal is very acheivable with the right parts and right amount of money. If you don't mind spending the money go for it.
These cars are 100% about the tune. I spent so much money on my last TR trying to make it go fast, when I finally broke something expensive (tranny) I had to sell the car cause I couldn't afford to fix it right. Took me 4 years to buy another one.
I'll say one more thing for Razor's alky kit. The other day I had a problem testing a new boost controller. I leave the alky system on ALL the time. I jumped on the car and before I knew it she spun to 30psi of boost. I had DS running and NO KNOCK. If I didn't have the alky on the car, I would have been shoveling parts.
Sure your goal is very acheivable with the right parts and right amount of money. If you don't mind spending the money go for it.
These cars are 100% about the tune. I spent so much money on my last TR trying to make it go fast, when I finally broke something expensive (tranny) I had to sell the car cause I couldn't afford to fix it right. Took me 4 years to buy another one.
I'll say one more thing for Razor's alky kit. The other day I had a problem testing a new boost controller. I leave the alky system on ALL the time. I jumped on the car and before I knew it she spun to 30psi of boost. I had DS running and NO KNOCK. If I didn't have the alky on the car, I would have been shoveling parts.
JDSfastGN
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2001
Originally posted by tsturbo
GRANDNATS :
I am not trying to be a nay sayer . I am trying to help the guy out ! It is alot smarter and safer to start with a alky kit . Nobody is telling the poor guy once he does run race gas he has to buy 10 - 02 sensors .
And also please dont try to tune your car to run pump gas on my track because I will have to wait for them to clean it up after it blows the crank out of the bottom of the block .
Why even krack the engine open before need be . "THAT IS STUPID < AND IF ANYBODY HAS DONE IT I THINK ITS DUMB !" runner tell she's hurt . Get all you can out of it . Get a good tune . Dont just thow your money at it . Youll be one of these guys with a sig that looks like a "HARTLINE parts catalog"and in small writing at the end it reads " no alky - 12.20
And while I am on a roll , will you guys PLEASE STOP BUYING 4000000 # injectors to go 12's and 11's . My TR in the past went 11.40 118 mph on 40 # injectors . No alky .
ED is running 37 # injectors in the mid 11's . So come on boys and girls spend your money wisely .
If money is no option then he would have ask how can I go 9's on pump gas .
tuning for the limits of pump gas is no more unsafe than tuning the limits of alky or race gas, knock is knock period. I run my car very hard on the street on 93 and have never blown a headgasket or hurt the motor. If he wants to build a stout combo with ported heads then i don't see why not, they are awesome bang for the buck. This whole idea that once you crack the factory headgasket seal you'll be blowing gaskets all the time etc... is nothing more than a load of crap(not saying thats what you meant but many on this site are scared to open their motors for this reason) I have never blown a headgasket, the key is no knock at all, im not saying i haven't detonated it a few times on accident while tuning but you have to pay very close attention and not stay in it. I dont' see anybody recommending huge injectors, we are recommending something that he can grow into later, if he wants 11s on pure pump gas it has to be a low 11 sec high 10 second ride on race gas and 40# injectos will not get him there without being at 100% duty cycle, so 50s or 60s are the most logical choice imo. you are right there are a lot of guys with huge sigs and lotsa pointless parts (my ATR headers for instance) and they are not running up to par but ported irons are not throwing money at it, you can go faster period, and if later he wanted alky, he'll be that much faster.
sixgun86gn
six offender
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2002
I ran 7.17 in the 1/8 out here on 93 pump gas with 16# and 19*.The ambient temp at the track was 90* and I drove it there (50 miles one way)and back home.
This would calculate to a 1/4 of around 11.2x on pump gas and still more room to go with a better 60'.No alcohol needed if you do it right.Though it might help with just stock unported heads if you don't want to run race gas.I think there is no replacement for building a motor properly and letting the whole combo do the work instead of a bunch of boost on alcohol.Too hard on parts IMO.
This would calculate to a 1/4 of around 11.2x on pump gas and still more room to go with a better 60'.No alcohol needed if you do it right.Though it might help with just stock unported heads if you don't want to run race gas.I think there is no replacement for building a motor properly and letting the whole combo do the work instead of a bunch of boost on alcohol.Too hard on parts IMO.
i dont exactly have to run 11's.i would be to happy with mid to low 12's.just looking to make it fast as possible on 93 with out having to build an all out drag car.i do need new rocker shafts so i figured since im doing that,why not have new springs installed and the the heads ported.is there not that big of a gain??i see alot of people replacing springs and the car does have 100k mi on it.
i never said i wasnt going to buy an alky kit,i said i will eventually if anybody read my last post!!
so if i do get an alky kit whats better the smc kit or razors kit??
also what in car boost controller is good??ive read a few posts recently and havent seen anything good.
and can i run an alky chip on the street when im not using it??thats what im trying to stay away from is messing with a bunch of chips and other crap.I WANT TO KEEP IT SIMPLE !!!!
i had a low 12's 94 z28 before this with heads,cam, and gear.simple, no bottle ,nothing to mess with just get in and drive.
thats what i want with this car,if someone pulls up beside me i want to know i can smokem without having to pull over and change chips or mess with something else or tell them wait and let me fill up my alky kit.
quote"Slow91Z and tsturbo, I almost spit up my coffee this morning reading this thread.. "
the gn is new to me,thats why im here asking questions.seeing if anyone can point me in the right direction.so keep it simple for me and dont be a jackoff.i dont mind spending a little money but i dont wont to spend a fortune either.
red regal t,PASCO CO SUCKS !!
i never said i wasnt going to buy an alky kit,i said i will eventually if anybody read my last post!!
so if i do get an alky kit whats better the smc kit or razors kit??
also what in car boost controller is good??ive read a few posts recently and havent seen anything good.
and can i run an alky chip on the street when im not using it??thats what im trying to stay away from is messing with a bunch of chips and other crap.I WANT TO KEEP IT SIMPLE !!!!
i had a low 12's 94 z28 before this with heads,cam, and gear.simple, no bottle ,nothing to mess with just get in and drive.
thats what i want with this car,if someone pulls up beside me i want to know i can smokem without having to pull over and change chips or mess with something else or tell them wait and let me fill up my alky kit.
quote"Slow91Z and tsturbo, I almost spit up my coffee this morning reading this thread.. "
the gn is new to me,thats why im here asking questions.seeing if anyone can point me in the right direction.so keep it simple for me and dont be a jackoff.i dont mind spending a little money but i dont wont to spend a fortune either.
red regal t,PASCO CO SUCKS !!
streetknight
DCVING
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
Sorry if some of us are "preaching to you" If mid to low 12's is acceptable for now here's what you do. Go to gnttype.org and read the "Spring Cleaning" page. All of these things are beneficial and relatively inexpensive. You need a boost guage, scan tool (scan master probably most popular), adjustable fuel regulator is nice, Needs a good fuel pump like Quad Air's xp, or a Walbro 340, K & N filter and a good 93 street chip. If your actuator on the wastegate isn't adjustable you'll need that too.
With some good tires I ran 12.40's @ 108 with 17-18psi tuned very good on pump gas.
I also reccomend calling Quad Air and tell John you would like a copy of there "Unleashing the Power" literature. Lot of good reading in there too.
With some good tires I ran 12.40's @ 108 with 17-18psi tuned very good on pump gas.
I also reccomend calling Quad Air and tell John you would like a copy of there "Unleashing the Power" literature. Lot of good reading in there too.
Fugitive, the point you miss is your bringing V8 thoughts into your planning. It is very common to do heads and cam on an LT1/LS1.. on our cars..its the last thing you want to do until you just have to do it. I would tell you to buy a set of ported heads and leave them sitting onthe shelf for the day it happens.
The head gasket seal on the stock head gaskets is almost explosion proof..... once you crack that 18 year old GM seal.. you just opened Pandora's box. And get ready.. cuase the mistakes the stock HG let you get away with.. the new gaskets wont.
I'm not saying this to sell you anything.. but in my book on a stock turbo buick.. heads is the last thing I would touch.
Hell i'd pull the motor and port the heads installed on the motor
You ever heard that saying..dont know how good you have it till its gone...
Build a 10 second car to run 11's on limited octane. Nobody argues it ant be done, the argueement is simply $$$$ and experience. Both of which your in short supply at the moment.
sixgun86gn.. look at the sig
The head gasket seal on the stock head gaskets is almost explosion proof..... once you crack that 18 year old GM seal.. you just opened Pandora's box. And get ready.. cuase the mistakes the stock HG let you get away with.. the new gaskets wont.
I'm not saying this to sell you anything.. but in my book on a stock turbo buick.. heads is the last thing I would touch.
Hell i'd pull the motor and port the heads installed on the motor
You ever heard that saying..dont know how good you have it till its gone...
Build a 10 second car to run 11's on limited octane. Nobody argues it ant be done, the argueement is simply $$$$ and experience. Both of which your in short supply at the moment.
sixgun86gn.. look at the sig
sixgun86gn
six offender
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2002
Nice.You are flying now.10s are just a tick away.
I ran at noble and the 1-2 shift stopped happening for me(rev limiting) on the first run ,so my best 1/4 time as of late was 11.20 @125.I had to lift at the top of first and wait for the shift to happen(force the shift) I lost .5 having to do that.Kept breaking rocker shafts hitting the limiter in first.
Went from 6.8 1/8 to 7.3 1/8 because of that.No doubt a 10.80 or better otherwise.Only 20# of boost too on my little t 63.
Motor is out getting ready to go in a friends car.Tranny is getting replaced with a th400.
Mike AKA grandnat ran 10.8 @127 with a crappy 60'.
BTW you are a little less stock than your sig implies.
I ran at noble and the 1-2 shift stopped happening for me(rev limiting) on the first run ,so my best 1/4 time as of late was 11.20 @125.I had to lift at the top of first and wait for the shift to happen(force the shift) I lost .5 having to do that.Kept breaking rocker shafts hitting the limiter in first.
Went from 6.8 1/8 to 7.3 1/8 because of that.No doubt a 10.80 or better otherwise.Only 20# of boost too on my little t 63.
Motor is out getting ready to go in a friends car.Tranny is getting replaced with a th400.
Mike AKA grandnat ran 10.8 @127 with a crappy 60'.
BTW you are a little less stock than your sig implies.
quote"Slow91Z and tsturbo, I almost spit up my coffee this morning reading this thread.. "
the gn is new to me,thats why im here asking questions.seeing if anyone can point me in the right direction.so keep it simple for me and dont be a jackoff.i dont mind spending a little money but i dont wont to spend a fortune either.
red regal t,PASCO CO SUCKS !!
quote"Slow91Z and tsturbo, I almost spit up my coffee this morning reading this thread.. "
GOOD GOING RAZOR YOU MADE HIM MADD !!! hhahahahaha
FUGITIVE
the gn is new to me,thats why im here asking questions.seeing if anyone can point me in the right direction.so keep it simple for me and dont be a jackoff.i dont mind spending a little money but i dont wont to spend a fortune either.
red regal t,PASCO CO SUCKS !!
quote"Slow91Z and tsturbo, I almost spit up my coffee this morning reading this thread.. "
GOOD GOING RAZOR YOU MADE HIM MADD !!! hhahahahaha
FUGITIVE
quote"Slow91Z and tsturbo, I almost spit up my coffee this morning reading this thread.. "
the gn is new to me,thats why im here asking questions.seeing if anyone can point me in the right direction.so keep it simple for me and dont be a jackoff.i dont mind spending a little money but i dont wont to spend a fortune either.
GOOD GOING RAZOR YOU MADE HIM MADD !! HAHAHA
FUG i am not trying to be a @$$ . i am trying to keep it real with you . there are alot of people on here that seem to take the hard way . "i was one of them 6 years ago " i have seen the evil of my ways and i am trying to help you not make the mistakes i have made and others have made "
i dont like it when newbies get on here and every body tells them to buy a 72Q turbo 70 # injectors front mont , port the heads BLABALBABLALBALBBA ect ......
buy a alky kit then go from there , then crack the egg open .
dont forget ts rhyms .
roses are red
violets are blue
try to run 11's
and your head gasket will go BLEW !!
no spittin razor ! hahahah
the gn is new to me,thats why im here asking questions.seeing if anyone can point me in the right direction.so keep it simple for me and dont be a jackoff.i dont mind spending a little money but i dont wont to spend a fortune either.
GOOD GOING RAZOR YOU MADE HIM MADD !! HAHAHA
FUG i am not trying to be a @$$ . i am trying to keep it real with you . there are alot of people on here that seem to take the hard way . "i was one of them 6 years ago " i have seen the evil of my ways and i am trying to help you not make the mistakes i have made and others have made "
i dont like it when newbies get on here and every body tells them to buy a 72Q turbo 70 # injectors front mont , port the heads BLABALBABLALBALBBA ect ......
buy a alky kit then go from there , then crack the egg open .
dont forget ts rhyms .
roses are red
violets are blue
try to run 11's
and your head gasket will go BLEW !!
no spittin razor ! hahahah
sixgun86gn
six offender
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2002
Tsturbo I see what you are trying to say but I disagree.
Alcohol is not for beginners,heck even some of us experienced guys have a hard time with it.
With a properly built motor you set the fuel pressure to the chip guys recomendations and let it control the boost through the wastegate solenoid and forget about it.Just hang on.That is all I do.Now turning up the boost on race gas is a different conversation.
With alky the tune can change with the weather like any setup,just more noticeably I beleive.And with raising the boost comes all the tuning problems that come with it and cause problems if not damage.You know like spark blowing out,hoses blowing off,leaning out,etc..This is no big deal if you know what you need to do when you raise the boost,but a beginner has no idea.Bad juju in my experience.Please do not make him beleive it is just a bolt on and go operation.It is not.He should hook up with someone who uses and has experience with Alky if he wants to try it,or he WILL be doing the heads anyway while replacing those headgaskets.Hate to say it but he will anyhow with the alky,just trying to tune it most likely.
I beleive even Razor has had his tuning hiccups and has admitted to them.Probably why he developed the PAC .You dont just put on an alky kit and turn the boost way up and run 11s most times,unless you have experienced help.
My honest suggestion to this fellow is this....Learn about the stock setup on pump gas before you do anything at all.Too many just want to turn the boost up and run fast.That just isn't smart to do right away.
Alcohol is not for beginners,heck even some of us experienced guys have a hard time with it.
With a properly built motor you set the fuel pressure to the chip guys recomendations and let it control the boost through the wastegate solenoid and forget about it.Just hang on.That is all I do.Now turning up the boost on race gas is a different conversation.
With alky the tune can change with the weather like any setup,just more noticeably I beleive.And with raising the boost comes all the tuning problems that come with it and cause problems if not damage.You know like spark blowing out,hoses blowing off,leaning out,etc..This is no big deal if you know what you need to do when you raise the boost,but a beginner has no idea.Bad juju in my experience.Please do not make him beleive it is just a bolt on and go operation.It is not.He should hook up with someone who uses and has experience with Alky if he wants to try it,or he WILL be doing the heads anyway while replacing those headgaskets.Hate to say it but he will anyhow with the alky,just trying to tune it most likely.
I beleive even Razor has had his tuning hiccups and has admitted to them.Probably why he developed the PAC .You dont just put on an alky kit and turn the boost way up and run 11s most times,unless you have experienced help.
My honest suggestion to this fellow is this....Learn about the stock setup on pump gas before you do anything at all.Too many just want to turn the boost up and run fast.That just isn't smart to do right away.
im not mad,tshomo,i expect crap from internet hardasses like yourself.
i never would have thought the factory headgaskets would be that good,i thought there would be something better in the aftermarket.
if i get an alky chip can you run it on the street when your not using it ?or do you have to switch chips because of timing?
razor,how does your kit compare to the smc kit??also, your friends bob right?
i never would have thought the factory headgaskets would be that good,i thought there would be something better in the aftermarket.
if i get an alky chip can you run it on the street when your not using it ?or do you have to switch chips because of timing?
razor,how does your kit compare to the smc kit??also, your friends bob right?
six gun PLEASE DONT MAKE HIM SPEND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS !
I understand this tuning thing . But I bet you anybody on here will tell you they would rather "TUNE" alky than pull heads , install front mount ect..... Come on lets be real here . ALKY is the only way to go for this setup .Your right he will need some help . He will need help anyways he bought a TR !! Come on we all know how finiky these cars are . If he didnt want something he had to tune on all the time he should have bought a crustang or something . So to me to say tuning alky is a big deal is blabla .
And yes it can be done your with $$$$$ but not everybody has $$$.
FUG: dont let him scare you with alky . Everything I have heard about razor customer service is superior to others so if you have problems you can call him or write on here and ask questions . I am not telling you to buy the kit and set your boost on 30 # . I am telling you to get the kit and eas into the boost . It is the cheapest way to go .
I see no one touched on the 02 sensor thing .
SIX GUN I DISAGREE !!
I understand this tuning thing . But I bet you anybody on here will tell you they would rather "TUNE" alky than pull heads , install front mount ect..... Come on lets be real here . ALKY is the only way to go for this setup .Your right he will need some help . He will need help anyways he bought a TR !! Come on we all know how finiky these cars are . If he didnt want something he had to tune on all the time he should have bought a crustang or something . So to me to say tuning alky is a big deal is blabla .
And yes it can be done your with $$$$$ but not everybody has $$$.
FUG: dont let him scare you with alky . Everything I have heard about razor customer service is superior to others so if you have problems you can call him or write on here and ask questions . I am not telling you to buy the kit and set your boost on 30 # . I am telling you to get the kit and eas into the boost . It is the cheapest way to go .
I see no one touched on the 02 sensor thing .
SIX GUN I DISAGREE !!
Originally posted by sixgun86gn
Nice.You are flying now.10s are just a tick away.
BTW you are a little less stock than your sig implies.
Hey its a small shaft turbo and a water kit
That's what I tell the guys at the track when they look at it 100% OEM stock suspension(front/rear sway bars, oem shocks, oem springs, oem everything cept the brakes), stock bottom end, stock TB and plenum, flat tappet cam...Weighs 3700 with me in it.
And 25 MPG
The chip can make or break an alky kit and its "figuring" it out. weather changes are no different than without it.. it gets cold..bump the fuel pressure a little thats if you on the edge.
Grandnat and sixgun86gn you guys give me something to shoot for
Guess when you trap over 125 the little BS flag pops up on calling the motor stock
JDSfastGN
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2001
Originally posted by tsturbo
I see no one touched on the 02 sensor thing .
SIX GUN I DISAGREE !!
Eh its really not a big deal at all anymore, especially with the denso O2s(they are 17 bucks a pop), i have at leat 15 track passes on my latest one and thats averaging 3 passes per appearance and i usually put in 8 gallons of 112 per visit. So overall thats a lot of track and street miles with unleaded in the tank (i fill up with pump afterwards so i can get the most out of it on the street for the next week
) I have nothing against alky, in fact today or tommorow i will be ordering one of razors kits. (finally ) I just believe that its not hard to throw on a set of heads and keep them sealing, i really don't buy into the factory seal is so much better deal. You are correct though that there is an easier way and now that he has reestablished what his goals may be, i think a simple recipe setup with alky is the way to go.
