HR Partsnstuff mounts

[TurboTR]

Well the high dollar stage block mount on the pass side is really being interfered with by the freeze plug boss there on my new S2 block. Basically the mount is cocked up against there, rather than being able to hug the block side. Anyone else run into this yet, and if so what did you do about it? Mill clearance for it? it's a shame that I'll probably still have to do something like that to an already ~ $185 pair of motor mounts. I'd prefer it bolt on <sigh>...

TurboTR

 

[geno]

Im going to pretend like i didnt read this
I hope mine fit.. I dont know why i should care at this point because everything ive ever done on my car ive had to rework to make it fit. My wife thinks im crazy and is always saying didnt you just buy that as im cuttiing and welding on a part i just bought. I always say that you have to do this because we want to go faster than the guys that just bolts parts on out of the box..
Sometimes you get a part and you have to refine the product to get what you want. My mounts looked like they would work fine on my S1 block but the boss for the soft plug is taller on my S2 block and they dont fit. The soft plug boss on my S1 block has more boss material removed and they fit perfect. Here is a picture of what the S1 soft plug boss looks like. I hope this helps

http://www.netSnapShot.com/users/2412/images/PMZg1cCoBQIAAAIhXBs_2412_289.jpg

 

[re-evaluating]

HRparts mounts

Paul is out of town until tomorrow, but definitely contact him he WILL take care of it one way or another. I am the one that provided all the blocks to developed the mounts. I believe they were "as cast" and had not been ground on but anything is possible. I do know the mounts are designed to use the soft plug boss as a support. If you can take some pictures of the fit I am sure that would help. If you don't have Paul's number shoot me an email and I will put you in touch with him. I will also forward this thread to him. Hang in there Todd Dave England

 

[TurboTR]

Well the best thing in my case would be for HR to be able to fwd and exchange me a reworked mount that will bolt on. The main problem is I'm doing all this in a very cramped apt garage with the door closed (have to keep the work secret or get evicted). Just reworking things in there for the TH400 install is fun enough, believe me Now I have to figure out where to cut, find a reasonable machine shop, lift the engine up again, etc.

The freeze plug bosses are very "tall" on the S2 block I have; they protrude outward from the block wall quite a bit. Plus Herr Duttweiler (I'm assuming- might have been Buick?) had drilled retainer screw holes for the freeze plugs, some of which go into water <sigh> I had to remove one of the retainer screws to get the mount to go on. Right now both mounts are on temporarily and the engine is laying in there so I can mock up the TH400 install.

I'd take a pic but am "digital camera challenged" these days. The trade towers thing made the job market very tough around here.

I'm not trying to slam anyone, I think most of us here can relate to the minor frustration I'm expressing I think the mounts are very nice in general and am pleased with HR's efforts on them. They just need some refining on fit in my case. Anyway, if the mounts were ready to go I could probably have the car running in time for the annual Lone Star Mini Nats this coming Sunday, this year being held in my own backyard even. Otherwise, more delays.

Too bad the HD poly trans mount isn't done, that could solve the TH400 install problems nicely with another hole or two drilled. Turns out that on my car the drivers side trans mount hole is lining up perfectly with the stock mount. Since the TH400 mount is wider that means the other side mount hole is off by about 1/2" or so, which puts it off the side of available steel of the stock mount basically. It looks to me like all HR will have to do is keep that in mind and I bet the new trans mount could be designed where it also allows TH400 install without reworking the x-member- a *very* nice sales feature IMO... Just send me a check ;-)

As it is, I have to add a few inches of iron to the existing, offset trans mount flange on the x-member, then drill some holes for a non-offset, universal poly trans mount from Energy Susp. Also drill a new hole in the stock exh hanger bracket so it'll sandwich in there. BTW the TCI poly trans mount appears to be the same Energy one, only marked up 2x the cost ($40 vs $20 from Jegs- same catalog even .

Thanks for listening- I feel better already ;-)

TurboTR

 

[TurboCrazy]

Been there, done that.

We had to relieve the block of a little material in the same area, on Dads'
stage II on-center block. It was nothing a 4" angle grinder couldn't take
care of (primative, but effective). Ofcoarse, we didn't have any retaining
bolts(??) to deal with. I think HRs' motor mounts are top quality! Lets
be realistic!, anyone that wasn't looking for a serious challenge and a test
of ones pocket book, and persaverence(sp?), shouldn't attempt to build/install
a stage II motor!!!!!!!!!!

Brandon

 

[geno]

The mounts i have are nice nice Im sure there is a pretty large tolorance for machining the boss off and one size might not fit all without some rework. Its all part of the fun

 

[TurboTR]

>Lets be realistic!, anyone that wasn't looking for a serious challenge and a test of ones pocket book, and persaverence(sp?), shouldn't attempt to build/install a stage II motor!!!!!!!!!!

Yes let's be, I'm not going to take an angle grinder and grind off the freeze plug boss on the side of my block to "fix" what is really a mount issue. To each their own though I guess.

And challenges, hey that's part of it but having to "fix" a set of mounts that run $185 to begin with should not really be a necessary one IMO.

Why do I even have to defend my position here? This board is funny about that sort of thing sometimes... Fact is, the mounts don't fit right on my S2 block as delivered. They were supposed to fit if I understand correctly.

TurboTR

 

[Chuck Leeper]

S2 Mountz

TTR, there are 2 different designs. 1 for prod. blocks, 1 for stage. I got two of the very first sets. Both were for production blocks, except mine were to be used on a stage 2 block.. NO fit on the stage blk.
Sent them back.

 

[geno]

Also one is L/H and one is R/H just incase you didnt know,but im sure you do I was trying to help you and not make you defend yourself. All i was trying to say is that sometimes you have to make things work thats all. I didnt mean to offend you in anyway and was just trying to help.I thought by posting a picture of how tall the boss is on a block that the mounts work on would help you have a reference to look at By the way after chipping off all the epoxy around the soft plug the mount now fits my S2 on center block Are you sure you dont have some epoxy under the paint you dont know about around the soft plug sense you said it was pinned maybe it was epoxyed to

 

[The Radius Kid]

How much interference are you getting?Maybe a couple of shim plates between the mounts and the block?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

NO FIT??

The problem is the contour of the stage block is different due to the larger bore/waterjacket area on the stage vs the production block. The mounts are totally different when you put them side by side.. Why grind anything? Use the correct mount to begin with...

 

[geno]

I agree Chuck
I think he said they are the high dollar stage 2 mount though
I could see a problem MIGHT happening just from the fact that the factory tolorance used to machined the motor mount pad to the soft plug boss.Re-evaluating says they use the soft plug boss as a support.. I agee you shouldnt have to grind anything. I really think they are the wrong mounts or there is epoxy around the soft plug though. I do know i have 4 stage blocks and they fit perfect on all of them But what do i know

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Wrong mts??

I think you are right Gene. HR Parts may have shipped the production mounts, had them in the wrong box.. who knows.
Once I got the right mounts, they fit perfectly. I have since gone back to the stock mounts and a tie down cable off the back of the head and block down to a tab on the lower, rear a-arm bolt.
I use a T-400 and a t- brake and want a bit more assurance that the engine is not going to roll over in the frame w/ a 20 psi launch!!

 

[geno]

TurboTR
Here is the measurment on my known S2 mount so you can see if yours really are the right ones.

44 deg angle on the base plate with a .110 deep relief for the bulge of the water jacket. Maybe this will help


Chuck
20# T Brake launch with these mounts might rip the motor mount pad right off the block if it hooks LOL Id chain that thing down and throw holly water on it too He He Are you going to the Nats?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Holy H2O!!

I do use "holy water".. I get it in 12 oz cans made famous by the frogs and a couple lizzards!!!

I have a cable system from the rear of the head to the frame. 1/4" cable, braided in to 2 loops and clamped in 3 places.
The stock mounts I use are from the local discount auto parts. They are just there to hold the engine in place....

The deep milled relief is the main difference w/ the stage mount. I think you have the right ones.. TTR may not...

I'll be at BG... I'll be the old fart w/ the gray hair, the CODY shirt and hat to keep from baking what little brain matter I have left.
[Both the gray hair and the lack of gray matter is the DIRECT result of messin w/ these BUICKSSSSSS!!]

 

[re-evaluating]

Mount woes

The difference is the area that is milled out of the back side of the mount to clear the larger bore and water jacket etc. I will not put words in Paul's mouth but he will take care of you on them. As for ripping the side out of the block anything can happen and extra support is always a bonus. Ski has seen some 34 lb launches in his 8 second car and the mounts handled it just fine. As for your suggestion for on the trans mounts great idea Paul already thought of it though. Make sure you talk to him about it when you call him I know there are a few of those trans mounts finished. First hand knowledge, yes I have mine in hand. Also let him know you already have the ENS mount so he doesn't send another. He should be available tomorrow morning so give him a call. Dave

 

[HRpartsNstuff]

I made it home tonight, sorry I didn't catch all this earlier to help out. Thanks Dave (re-evaluating) for sending me the link.

I have talked with Turbo TR & we are getting to the bottom of this. For sure, he has a stg II block, and he has the stg II mounts.

The mounts ARE supposed to contact the block on the freeze plug bosses, just as the stock mounts did. I have check many different stg I & II, early & late castings, 3.8's & 4.1's, and they all look & measure the same around the freeze plug bosses. There is no way to check them all, and there may be some taller bosses on some stg II's for some reason. I wish I had a pic to look at of his install, but we will get to the bottom of it & get the situation fixed asap. We have had to make some special mounts to fit the blocks that people have with already ground off bosses, but this is a first for taller ones.

Taking a grinder to the block is not anything bad. I know a well respected Buick guru that grinds them down for a different reason with no problems. It can be done if necessary. Our mounts fit fine 99% of the time, this may be that other 1%. When we get it fixed & figured out, I will post what was up so we can all know what happened.

We do have the poly trans mounts available for the TR's. We have one that fits a 200 trans, and one for the 400 trans. Both bolt right up with the stock crossmember. A slight mod is necessary to the stk exhaust hanger if used, but not a big issue. Check out our website for details on them.

We make excessive attempts to ensure as close to a perfect fit with everything we make. As we all know, tolerances, sizes, and fit varies widely from car to car. We have had no problems with 99% of our customers. The other 1% something strange pops into the equation, and we make excessive attempts to fix the situation, make it right, and get them running asap. If all else fails & it can't be fixed & the parts can't be used, we have taken them back & given a full refund. Our goal is to have 100% customer satisfaction if at all possible.

 

[TurboTR]

Thanks for the help everyone. The point of my post is to point out an issue that others may also face/be facing and try to get it resolved. Sorry, being told to be realistic about it kinda pissed me off. We are doing that very thing here, more or less and I'm glad to see HR in here with the same positive attitude about it. Thanks for returning my call Paul.

I checked as best I could, as I said the mill is currently in the car for trans mockup and it's tough to get some measurements. I checked the ds mount at the top, front corner and it's about 5/16" away from the block there. Also, the freeze plug boss sticks out further than the curved, cyl case part of the block by about 1/16-1/8", best I can tell. It's a tall set of freeze plug bosses! And they are not puttied up, that's as cast. This was a brand new block we sarted with. The other side is not nearly as bad and may be "normal" for all I know. The ds is not though.

So the mounts are supposed to butt up against the freeze plug bosses? Sounds like this one may be tough to resolve over the phone to get the correct spacing...

My engine builder up in WA has another block with the same bosses on it; wonder if we'll have to send the mounts up there to have him machine 'em to fit? But again, we wouldn't know the right amount of spacing for 'em I guess. Hmm.

TurboTR

 

[TurboCrazy]

????????????????

Todd,

I think that in your state of motor/ car aggravation, you misunderstood my
post. No part of it was intended as a shot at or to flame you. I must have
made a pour choice in words. What I meant was, that most all that have
built/installed a stage II motor, have experienced a few and often many
aggravations. We're still dealing with a few small ones on Dads' motor, while
freshening it up. Starting to get worried we won't get it together for the Nats.
Oh well, just another aggrevation bump in the stage II road we've chosen!


Brandon

 

[HRpartsNstuff]

Originally posted by TurboTR
I checked as best I could, as I said the mill is currently in the car for trans mockup and it's tough to get some measurements. I checked the ds mount at the top, front corner and it's about 5/16" away from the block there. Also, the freeze plug boss sticks out further than the curved, cyl case part of the block by about 1/16-1/8", best I can tell. It's a tall set of freeze plug bosses! And they are not puttied up, that's as cast. This was a brand new block we sarted with. The other side is not nearly as bad and may be "normal" for all I know. The ds is not though.

Let's make sure I am understanding this correctly. If you put a straight edge accross the freeze plug boss horizontally, it hits nothing? The casting around the cyl bore doesn't stick out
past that level?? The 5/16 dimension doesn't sound that far off.

How much space is there at the top edge of the mount, right in the center of the milled scallop on the mount to the edge of the casting around the cyl bore?

So the mounts are supposed to butt up against the freeze plug bosses? Sounds like this one may be tough to resolve over the phone to get the correct spacing...
TurboTR

YES! Our mounts AND the stock mounts all hit the edge of the freeze plug boss. That is what lines everything up & gives it extra support. It is REALLY strange that you could have a tall boss on the dr side and a regular boss on the pass side. I have seen stranger stuff though

It is hard fixing this via phone & internet without pics. Is there any way you can take a poloroid or reg pic & mail it to me? You could scan it & then E-mail it too if you have the ability.

Anyone close by have a digital camera that can help out??????
A pic is worth a thousand words!