i'm neeeew! and can use some advice.

[kaj]

hola, guys. my name is Jason from Fresno CA. i'm a new owner of an '85.. something. i'm told it is a GN. looks like one from head to toe.. but told there is no "we2" on the tag.

i have yet to take delivery, so we'll see.


anyway.. t-type. GN. whatever. i have specific goals. i'm just gonna throw them out to you guys.

1. what can i do for reliablity upgrades?
2. i plan to swap an '87 turbo. is it plug and play? anything else need to be changed?
3. i also plan to install an '87 intercooler. i can make custom IC pipes.. but is there a way to get a set to fit the IC and a turbo in the '85's position?
4. what type of injector do i need? peak and hold? saturated? what size, assuming i max out the '87 turbo?
5. it was recommended i get an '87 ecu. why?
6. how are these tuned? i have an awesome tuner but haven't talked to him yet. he tunes everything that we've taken him. is there a software that's used? chips? does the ECU need to be socketed? is it flashed?
my Tuner is Shawn Church of Church Automotive, if anyone happens to know him.
7. i want to fit the widest tires i can and keep the same size all the way around, if possible. a bit wider in the back is okay. from what i read, i'm looking at a 15x8 wheel with 4.5" backspacing. does that sound right? and on an 8" wheel, can't i only run a 245 or MAYBE a 255 tire? i thought i read about a 275 rear and 245 front?
8. i've read about using an LS1 MAF. what's the point? what size? year? what's a "translator" and what's needed to install both?
9. what is a "hot wire" for the fuel pump?
10. do i just use the same 255 Walbro fuel pump i've used in all other cars?
11. i read something about aluminum drums. brake drums??
12. how can i get disc brakes front and rear? i'm assuming Wilwood makes a set.

what other mods can i do? i'm not looking to build the engine, put in a crazy stall or anything like that. i just want to have a fun car and MAYBE max out the '87 turbo. i don't drag race, so i'm not worried about "hooking". i would like to get this thing out for an auto-x. i think it would be hilarious. does anyone do sway bars/panhard/etc on the suspension for these cars? coil overs? tubular k-members?

yes, i plan to do research here. don't worry. i'm just seeing if anyone has a few links off the top of their heads. plus i wanted to introduce myself.

i've been a long-time member on many, many other forums.. and i HATE to be the noob that comes on asking a million questions that have been asked a billion times.. but that's the job of the experienced guys, right? to guide the new guys along. haha.

anyway, all advice is welcome. any direction as far as links, etc would be great.

thanks for reading, guys. i've wanted one of these cars since i were 12. 24yrs later, here we are. my story, in case anyone is interested:

back in 1986, my dad took me to see two particular cars. we never went to dealerships to window shop... but for these vehicles, he was quite excited and had to show me. one was a BMW M3, the other was the Buick Grand National.
so, one day he takes me to the GM dealership and shows me a sexy black car. it didn't look like a porsche or ferrari. there was no leather interior. it was very.. square. i didn't know what a turbo was. i just knew the car was black and looked bad ass. even i could tell it was something special.
the car's image always stuck in my head (as did the M3). when i think of what got me started into loving cars, i think back to those two vehicles. i always had a soft spot for them. the M3 was always something i thought of as being out of reach. it was a BMW! the GN was just.. well.. i didn't see many of them. it was elusive. like the Batmobile. LOL
as time went on and i started getting into situations where i could have "fun" cars, i went through many phases. i did the V-8 Mustang. i did the 11-sec Hondas. i did the road-hugging Integra Type-R as well as a fun-as-all-hell-everywhere-i-take-it Evolution MR. i always had the nostalgic feelings every time i saw an old M3 or the Grand Nationals.
at one point i even thought about getting a GN. they price was in a range i could finally afford. i now had the knowledge to do anything i wanted with it. then.. i see one in Fast and Furious. damn it. still sexy. still black. still bad ass.

so.. here i am. living a dream based on the memories of being 12yrs old. i'm a kid again, of sorts. i'm going to enjoy a COMPLETELY different car in a totally new way. it's still gonna be a builder for my son and i... just not as much work.

the first thing i'm going to do when it gets here? take my dad for a ride.

 

[DR BOOST]

your father knows best.....get an 86 or an 87. there is a different level of dedication needed to make a hotair tr fast.

 

[831_gn]

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/
http://www.turbobuicks.com
A vast amount of information in these sites and probably the best. Happy reading.

 

[just plain john]

X2 on the 86/87. The intercooled cars are the ones to look for. The hot airs are just not capable of the higher boost levels because the intake charge is too hot. That said, many of the specific questions you asked have been discussed numerous times. LS maf is cheaper and more reliable than a stock maf but outputs a different signal, anf the translator converts the new signal wave to the old wave so the ecm can read it. The hot wire takes power directly from the back of the alternator, and is triggered by the existing fuel pump circuit. It eliminates several plug in connections and ensures full voltage to the pump. Yes, it's the same Walbro pump, but there are some better ones out there now. Aluminum drums on the rear of some GN's, also standard on some other cars and will fit a GN. Brakes from a Blazer are a popular front upgrade, and 5th gen Camaros in the rear. 60# Mototron injectors are popular (with a chip), and work well even if you don't utilize their full potential. Tire fitment has about a million threads, look in the suspension section.

 

[DailyDrifter]

If you want a GN get a 86-87. Alot easier to upgrade. Or don't buy on and save yourself the eheadaches,lol.

 

[kaj]

Thanks, guys. Already bought the 85. It was a deal I couldn't pass up. An '87 turbo will be clocked and running through the '87's intercooler with an 87 Ecu.
I've built a few high horsepower civics. THAT is a headache. LOL.
Anyway, I'm not afraid to spend time and money on the car. It's intended to be a project. Work is what I'm hoping for. LOL
All the info above is awesome. Thanks guys. I'm sure ill find all I need here, I am just trying to have the parts here before the car. I'll just have to be patient.

Thanks for all the links and info, guys!

 

[that national]

Yikes, I wouldn't expect to much from the 85 drivetrain even with the 87 turbo installed. Also these are full frame cars and the "k" member is not removable but u can buy tubular A-arms, control arms, and larger sway bars.

 

[kaj]

No worries. I don't expect too much. The car is my toy. I'll have fun either way.

I found DSE's website. Oooooooh, man. I'm thinking about their front and rear suspension kits. Mmmmmm

 

[Evans Ward]

Welcome to the money pit........:redface: Misery loves company but when they are runnng great, it's a high!! Educate yourself before you start throwing $ and parts at your car. Scan tool should be your first mod.

 

[kaj]

Welcome to the money pit........:redface: Misery loves company but when they are runnng great, it's a high!! Educate yourself before you start throwing $ and parts at your car. Scan tool should be your first mod.

Who makes s good one? I come from a workday of free diag and code reading. Forgot ill need a scanner.

 

[kaj]

P.s. my last car had $20k into it. Sold for $12k. I KNOW money pits.

 

[Squid4life]

Congrats on the purchase! Go to the hot air section are READ EVERYTHING! That is the best way to start. Most times, someone has asked every single question you can think of, and the guys who have been around a lot know their stuff and have answered all of those q's. Change your listing on the bottom left in the hot air section to show all posts from the last year, or from the beginning and start reading and searching. If you have a specific question about "87 turbo" or "largest turbo", search by that and read. You will answer a lot of your own questions that way. There are also a lot of guys, possibly some in your area that can lend some suggestions, advice, and even assistance tuning or turning wrenches.

Good luck and congrats again! Make sure you post pics once you get it!

 

[Squid4life]

1. what can i do for reliablity upgrades?
87 ECM, TURBOTWEAK CHIP, NEW (WALBRO OR OTHER) FUEL PUMP, HOT WIRED.
NEW ALUMINUM RADIATOR AND DUAL FANS. (ALRADCO RAD, INTERPID DUAL FANS).
160 DEGREE TSTAT
SPRING CLEANING FROM GNTTYPE.ORG : The Grand National / T-Type / Turbo Regal Buick Spring Cleaning Guide

2. i plan to swap an '87 turbo. is it plug and play? anything else need to be changed?
NOT PLUG AND PLAY. THE 85 TURBO HAS A TURBO TO INTAKE ADAPTER. USED TO BE THE HOT THING TO HAVE THE TURBO GUYS WELD THAT ADAPTER ONTO THE TURBO, PUT A LARGER WHEEL IN, ETC. TA33 USED TO BE ONE OPTION, NOT SURE WHAT ELSE IS THERE NOW.

3. i also plan to install an '87 intercooler. i can make custom IC pipes.. but is there a way to get a set to fit the IC and a turbo in the '85's position?
MUST ADAPT THE INTAKE/TURBO TO RUN ANY KIND OF IC. ADAPTERS ARE OUT THERE, OR WERE, BUT ARE FEW AND FAR BETWEEN.

4. what type of injector do i need? peak and hold? saturated? what size, assuming i max out the '87 turbo?
I WOULD GO WITH A 60LBS/HR MOTOTRON FROM TURBOTWEAK, WITH A MATCHING CHIP.

5. it was recommended i get an '87 ecu. why?
87 ECM GIVES YOU MORE OPTIONS WITH A CHIP. YOU HAVE TO ADD A MAT SENSOR, BUT THAT IS SIMPLE, AND DOCUMENTED IN THE HOT AIR SECTION.

6. how are these tuned? i have an awesome tuner but haven't talked to him yet. he tunes everything that we've taken him. is there a software that's used? chips? does the ECU need to be socketed? is it flashed?
my Tuner is Shawn Church of Church Automotive, if anyone happens to know him.
GET A POWERLOGGER AND/OR SCANMASTER TO MONITOR/ ADJUST PARAMETERS. USE TURBOTWEAK CHIPS.

7. i want to fit the widest tires i can and keep the same size all the way around, if possible. a bit wider in the back is okay. from what i read, i'm looking at a 15x8 wheel with 4.5" backspacing. does that sound right? and on an 8" wheel, can't i only run a 245 or MAYBE a 255 tire? i thought i read about a 275 rear and 245 front?
YOU CAN EASILY FIT A 255 ON REAR, AND USUALLY A 245 ON FRONT. BUT, SOME CARS ARE DIFFERENT WITH ASPECTS OF HOW THE FRAME AND BODY MEET UP. YOU COULD HAVE 2” CLEARANCE ON ONE SIDE, AND RUB ON THE OTHER. LOOK IN THE WHEEL/TIRE SECTION FOR WHAT YOU CAN RUN ON WHAT WHEEL WITH/WITHOUT MODS.

8. i've read about using an LS1 MAF. what's the point? what size? year? what's a "translator" and what's needed to install both?
MAF AND TRANSLATOR PROVIDE MUCH MORE IN THE WAY OF TUNING AND DRIVEABILITY. I HAVE NEVER RUN ONE, SO AGAIN, SEARCH TO SEE THE ABUNDANCE OF INFO ON THESE SETUPS.

9. what is a "hot wire" for the fuel pump?
HOT WIRE IS A WIRE FROM THE ALT TO THE PUMP TO MAKE SURE YOU GET MAX VOLTAGE TO THE PUMP. CAN’T HAVE ANY DROP IN VOLTAGE OR YOU HAVE A DROP IN PRESSURE, WHICH IS BAD!

10. do i just use the same 255 Walbro fuel pump i've used in all other cars?
YES, OR LOOK AT THE THREADS FOR UPGRADED PUMPS POSTED HERE RECENTLY WHICH ARE SUPPOSED TO OUTPERFORM THE REGULAR WALBROS.

11. i read something about aluminum drums. brake drums??
YES, ALUMINUM BRAKE DRUMS. HELPS DISSIPATE HEAT AND LOSE SOME WEIGHT OFF THE CAR. SOME FEAR CRACKING OR SHATTERING, BUT YOU CAN READ THREADS ON THEM. I HAVE THEM ON MY CAR, HAVE FOR 4 YEARS OF DAILY DRIVING. NO ISSUES, AND I AM NOT EASY ON MY STUFF.

12. how can i get disc brakes front and rear? i'm assuming Wilwood makes a set.
CAN GO WILWOOD IF YOU HAVE DEEP POCKETS. CAN DO THE BLAZER 2 PISTON FRONT UPGRADE (THREAD IN THE WHEELS/TIRES/BRAKES SECTION) WHICH IS CHEAP AND EFFECTIVE. REARS, THERE ARE A FEW OPTIONS, MOST INVOLVE FABRICATING OR AT LEAST WELDING REAR MOUNTS ON. AGAIN, SEARCH IS YOUR FRIEND.


what other mods can i do? i'm not looking to build the engine, put in a crazy stall or anything like that. i just want to have a fun car and MAYBE max out the '87 turbo. i don't drag race, so i'm not worried about "hooking". i would like to get this thing out for an auto-x. i think it would be hilarious. does anyone do sway bars/panhard/etc on the suspension for these cars? coil overs? tubular k-members?
LOOK UP “SCOT W” AND CHECK OUT HIS SITE. HE OFFERS KILLER PARTS, AND BEATS THE HELL OUT OF THEM ON HIS OWN CAR.

 

[kaj]

Holy crap. Awesome replies!

Yes. I will post pictures. I am looking to buy a complete 87 turbo upgrade from intercooled88s here, on this board. Everything from turbo to exh manifold. He says it's all but the long block. Sounds perfect.
I'll upgrade from there. Hoping for 400whp at some point.
Will do the hot wire, fuel pump, and MAF upgrade. Injectors, etc.
I guess ill do a 15x8 when in rear and 15x7 front to avoid rubbing. I'd love the same sized wheel and tire all the way around, so considering 7s on rear too.

No matter what, my family and I will be having lots of fun building. Who knows? I may even eventually drive it. Haha.

Right now I'm getting anxious. Sooooooo want it in the garage already. (No homo).

 

[Odog87]

Kaj whats up bro, your the first member who is actually close to me....I live in lemoore CA. Congrats on getting a turbo buick man. I just picked up a PROJECT 87 not to long ago. Have you found any more fellow members in the area?

 

[kaj]

Kaj whats up bro, your the first member who is actually close to me....I live in lemoore CA. Congrats on getting a turbo buick man. I just picked up a PROJECT 87 not to long ago. Have you found any more fellow members in the area?

my friends and i run a site called FresnoRacing.net. it's a local "car guy" site that is mostly a bunch of us regulars. one turbo buick. a t-type, but he's not a regular.

no other turbo buicks in the area, that i know of. i don't even see any driving around. we gotta set up a get together. you should come up for one of our FSR meets/bbq.

i tried to find an 87 in my price range. no luck. i REALLY wanted a hard top.. but got a t-top. eh, well. i'll make do with what i have.

 

[Odog87]

Yeah I ill have to get some more info from you. I held out for about three years before I STUMBLED on mine. She runs just needs to replace a few things here and there, car shows her age a bit. So do you guys know anybody who does paint and body work? Tryna avoid macco at all cost lol, I've heard the horror stories....

 

[crow]

Mine has been very reliable. Only once did it not start. The MAF went bad. It was a simple fix. I must add that I do keep it up, maintained. I do not gom cheap oin anything replaced or repaired.
Yours looks a little built up. There is allot to these cars. Just bolting things on wont work, from experience. If I bought it I'd take it to a GN specialist in your area and have it tested, dynoed and see what you have. Aftefr all, you only have his word for it and he might have gotten it from someone else.
The car looks great in the photo but I have seen cars, in pictures, that looked good but in the flesh? What a mess of rust and stuff.
Good luck

 

[kaj]

Yeah I ill have to get some more info from you. I held out for about three years before I STUMBLED on mine. She runs just needs to replace a few things here and there, car shows her age a bit. So do you guys know anybody who does paint and body work? Tryna avoid macco at all cost lol, I've heard the horror stories....

i'll PM you some info. paint and body is all budget dependent. LOL. i know a guy, here in fresno. is family owns one of the most reputable shops in town. i can personally vouch for their work (i RARELY will vouch for any shop). it's not "bargain discount", but they also aren't the most expensive. they have well over 30yrs experience and only do REAL work. PM me and i can get you the info for our website, Fortney's Auto Body, and keep in touch for when our next bbq will be!

Mine has been very reliable. Only once did it not start. The MAF went bad. It was a simple fix. I must add that I do keep it up, maintained. I do not gom cheap oin anything replaced or repaired.
Yours looks a little built up. There is allot to these cars. Just bolting things on wont work, from experience. If I bought it I'd take it to a GN specialist in your area and have it tested, dynoed and see what you have. Aftefr all, you only have his word for it and he might have gotten it from someone else.
The car looks great in the photo but I have seen cars, in pictures, that looked good but in the flesh? What a mess of rust and stuff.
Good luck

the car has a quarter-sized dent in the front fender (i have yet to see WHERE) and the paint needs to be redone on the trunk lid, as well as the roof behind the t-top. all fixes i don't mind doing.
i will have it tossed on a dyno as soon as i get it and confirm it runs well. i need a baseline because it's not going to stay '85 spec for long.