I'm ressurectin my '84 from the pits of hell...

[Turbo Riviera]

After all these years, I am FINALLY getting back to work on my '84 GN. This car has sat since 1997 when I bought my Riviera and '87 GN.

I want to make a quick street car that doesn't knock, runs on pump gas, is quiet and idles good.

My old combo ran 13.20's @ 101 with 210/205 cam, LT headers & DP, ported intake and heads, a TH-400 trans, @ 15 psi boost. This was back when I had no clue how to keep head gaskets on hot-airs! LOL This thing was pinging from the starting line to the finish line and more than likely it pinged on the return road too! needless to say, we all know why there's a couple of chunks of piston missing on #1 and #3. Since this motor is kind of useless at the moment, I'm snatching the motor from my Riviera which is all stock except for a cam and installing it into my GN. I will not be re-using any parts from the old combo.

The problem with this motor is I run it at 21 psi (and race gas) to get the desired performance from it in my Riviera. I want to keep pump gas in it at all times. So I'm left with using alcohol, propane, or an intercooler.

I have all the parts to bolt a stock '86-'87 intercooler on, but I'm not very convinced it will do the job @ 21 psi.

Money is an object here. I really don't want to toss a bunch of $$$ at this car if I don't have to. (I did that many years ago!)

Finally, a question in this thread... Should I go intercooled, or go with a decent alky kit, or pony up the bucks and get the pro-pain kit?

The motor typically goes 14.30's in my Riviera (front drive and 3800 pounds) at my altitude (4400 feet). I figure it should pick up enough in weight and being in the rear drive GN, to go 13.90's pretty easily just as is w/ race gas. I'd like to keep that performance if possible on pump gas.

I don't want to have to make excuses for why I can't race someone at a stoplight... I'm looking for the best way to replace race gas.

 

[cool 84]

If I could only pick one, it would be an intercooler. It's there all the time and doesn't run out. Plus, I think you will get bigger gains with it. If you have the money, intercooler and methanol would be a great combo. My mph was extremely good for my boost level. 107mph at 10psi on a messed up run so I'm a big fan of the intercooler. Good luck with the car.

 

[racemybuick]

everyone has this option when buying a hot air TR. The real question is, how fast do you want to go? If you want easy fast 12's, the IC is the weapon of choice, along with the regular upgrades. If it is not 12's, but rather 11's or possibly 10's, these goals can be reached with no IC.

My combo in the near future is hopefully putting me into the deep 11's with good chip/tuning and the right tires!

Combo? I am putting together the roller combo compliments of Dave Weber, in Ohio. At a cost of around 1500, a custom roller setup specific to the owner of the car, os made by Weber.

I have a .030 block with TRW forged pistons, tons of shiney chrome.

Ported Heads, Matched intake with the egr ground down and blocked off.

Breathing in is a K&N filter to a bored out TB, into a TA54 turbocharger, fed by the ATR stainless 2.5 up-pipe. Exhaling is the MEASE performance 3" DP, with integral wastegate (replaces exhaust elbow). This will go to the 3" dump, with the electric cut-out...Borla from there on to keep the car street legal.

Injected at 60 psi, with the walbro 340 hotwired, and an accufab adj fpr. Also, for the auxilary injection, a two stage alky kit will be implemented...Possibly the Razor kit, but SMC is a little more affordable.

Stock 2004r beefed up with the right components for those 11's teamed up with a 3200 stall vigilante l/u converter.

On the ground, Nitto's on the rear, going with centerline's on all four corners, skinnies on the front for racing, stickies on the rear...Stock rims at the shows until I can choke up the $$ for some nice chrome! I am sticking with 15's for now.

For cooler temps, 160 stat, eletric fan, aluminum f-bod radiator, trans cooler, and trans pan cooler, oil cooler, and batting around the idea of hood louvers like those on the Conley Tweaked GN....the cooler the motor, the better the slips!!!

Hopefully, after all is said and done, 11.50's or better are my goal. In the mean-time, I am just shining up the chome, paining everything red/black, chrome, and making a show car, a go car!

See pics and progress at www.my84t-typenj.50megs.com

John

 

[Turbo Riviera]

Cool84, That's kind of what I was thinking, but I don't have a decent intercooler to use... Just a stock 87 POS.


Racemybuick,

Well, to re-state how fast I want to go... I would like to see high 13's in street trim.

Yes I know this is easy for most of you, but remember my altitude (4400 feet... It does make a difference on boosted cars)

The engine I have is capable of 14.30's at my altitude in a 3800 lb front drive Riviera now. With no changes to the engine, I think it should probably go high 13's in my GN. The problem is it runs this at 21 psi. Not good for pump gas.

What I'm asking is, which is better to handle that level of boost on pump gas? The intercooler, alky or propane?

Again, I have the parts to put on a stock '86-7 intercooler but I'm not sure it's big enough to go that high on boost.

One thought I had was while I was swapping, I could relocate the Throttle body. This was something I considered doing back in '97 when the car was running, and never did do... I figure that would pick up a fair amount of HP without any negatives.

I am not new to the hot air game... I've owned a hot air continuously since 1995. I just haven't run alky or propane before to know first hand what they're like and how they respond to hot air motors.

 

[racemybuick]

every time I asked someone how to run 22 psi or higher, they told me alky. Lee Thompson has a 10 sec hot air, and runs a nice alky setup, and I am almost positive he is not running less than 19 psi. The 93 is always a killer with turbo cars going over stock 13 psi...What I recommend is giving Steve at SMC a call, and anybody ar Razors, to see what they think. I fell that the IC, while providing a more dense charge of air, will only lighten the situation a bit for you, but not alleiviate it. I think alky is it. Propain? I only saw one car with....online. So I am not sure how that is working out.

For 13's at 4400, I think alky and tuning are the key to the city!

BTW, my bro lives in lakehurst, colorado. he had a turbo regal for a while, and ran sub 12's with c16 or sumthin to that effect, and his car was an IC car. It was not heavily modded, but enough to get the 11.90's or so. He credits tuning and the fuel, along with a te44 turbo and the regular upgrades. But if he can run 11's at Bandimere Raceway, Colorado, I think your 4400 elevation would definately agree with alky!!!

As per my bro...he sold the T-Type (86), for a 1980 heavily modded 11 sec el camino...Which got totalled in Denver...lol....should kept the T!!!

John

 

[afresh]

Now come on, you can't intercool it.

That would leave me the only one with a hot air seeing as how the riv will be a "no air" since it won't have a motor!


Andrew

 

[85 TR]

im putting mine in them, one big downward spiral$$$$

 

[Drac0nic]

my vote goes for an 87 ECM swap, a FWD FI intake, and if you don't mind the butchering a PS IC or alky if you wanna go IC-less. The FWD intakes are ecconomical, but will probably require accessory bracket mods and wiring mods. I don't have any accessory brackets at this time otherwise I could tell you in more detail. The thing will still flow tons better then the stocker.

 

[cool 84]

An intercooler will help at any level and especially with a street car in the 10 and 11 second range. Methanol is great but won't yeild the same gains and then there's the tuning (although minimal) and chance of failure. You'll make more power at normal street boost levels with the intercooler. That's why I mentioned I trapped 107mph with only 10psi. Methanol primarily makes more power from the added boost you can run. I'm not knocking methanol, it's my next mod but if I had to choose, it would be an easy decision for the intercooler.

 

[Turbo Riviera]

I don't mind doing an intercooler swap, but I don't want a front mount. Now that I think of it, I do have an old Mack semi-truck intercooler that I cut in half that may work pretty good between the framerails. I'll have to dig it up and see... I had a powerstroke intercooler a while back, but I sold it.

I'm leaning toward a nice home-made intercooler kit and a shot of alky. If the propain kit was a little cheaper, I would consider it too.

After putting some thought into it, I think it's probably going to take both alky and an intercooler to get what I'm looking for.

 

[racemybuick]

I think if you go alky and IC...the sky is the limit!!! good luck!

John

 

[Turbo Riviera]

Crap...

The mack intercooler is too wide to fit!

Anyone have a spearco kit kicking around?