installed roller need help

[ryan319]

i just installed a FT roller. had all the proper clearances and lifter preload. good oil flow everywhere, good preassure. everything appeared correct.

when i first started the car everything sounded good. the idle was normal and the egine was surpisingly quiet. not barely any typical clacking from the comp lifters.

i went for a short test drive, maybe 6 miles and the motor started rapping. it doesn't do it at idle, only when it's revved a little. i took the belt off and ran it for a few seconds and it made the noise at idle.

the knock sounds like it's coming from the timing cover area. i'm pretty sure it's not coming from the valve train or bottom end. oil pressure is still normal.

any ideas? i was thinking maybe the cam gear? or something up with the balancer?

 

[whitehot1]

What cam button did you use?

Was it the one with shims/spacers if so what did you set the thrust at?

 

[1chance]

Well i put a roller in a 4.1, and the cam bearing didnt have the groove cut in it to let oil to the driver side lifters, so pull the valve covers, and see if your getting oil to the driver side rocker arms! If not then you need to change the (front cam bearing only).

 

[ryan319]

refer to my original post. all the clearances were checked and good oil everywhere.

109 blocks have oil passages behind the cam bearing so grooved bearings or a groove in the front journal isn't needed. and i had oil at all the lifters. i primed it before it was reassembled.

thrust bearing was around .005. the one with the shims. i also have the one with the spring, maybe i should try switching them?

 

[whitehot1]

thrust bearing was around .005. the one with the shims. i also have the one with the spring, maybe i should try switching them?

You have the correct cam button and the thrust is set good, i wouldn't switch it with the spring type cam button.

You might want to check, like you mentioned the bolt for the balancer,water pump pulley and crank pulley bolts,cam sensor hold down bolt to see if it might have worked itself lose, cam sensor itself may be making the noise i've heard they make noise when going bad.

I would check everything external before removing anything from the engine to look inside.Hope it's something simple for you, good luck!

I just started breaking-in my new engine also and have checked everything at least 5 times :biggrin: so far so good,though.

John :smile:

 

[ryan319]

i've determined that the motor only makes this noise when it's warm. could a lifter be getting warm and sticking? it really sounds like lifter noise. i checked the cam sensor gear and retorqued the balancer.

will the lifter eventually free up or should i do something? i'm thinking of running some engine cleaner through the motor to see if it free's it up.

 

[SPOOLFOOL2]

Comp has had a huge problem with new lifters not pumping up, but all the ones that I've heard of were bad from the start up (not just after it warmed up). If it is a lifter not pumping up, and you keep driving it, you'll mushroom the bottom of the lifter body where the axel goes through, and may not be able to get it out. Try to isolate it with a stethascope. Good luck.

Mike B.

 

[Steve V]

You did cut down the exhaust guides,correct?

 

[ryan319]

You did cut down the exhaust guides,correct?

i have manley valves and the guides were cut. and i don't think that noise would only come after the car is warm.

the only thing that makes any sense is a lifter. my oil pressure is 20 warm idle and 50+ under throttle so i would think that elimates a bearing issue.

is there anyway to verify that a lifter is sticking? or a good way to get them unstuck? (aside from taking the intake off)

 

[challengermike]

I used to put a quart of ATF in the engine oil to unstick lifters,but thats usually when it get gummed up.I am not sure it will help in your case.

 

[SPOOLFOOL2]

With the bad Comp lifters that I saw, If you push down on the rocker tip with your palm, you could collaps the lifter. Make sure that you don't have a rocker hitting the valve cover. A cheap stethascope is about ten bucks at your local parts store, and could save you from chasing your tail.

Let us know.

Mike B.

 

[getchasum]

Did you clean and soak the lifters prior to install?

 

[Steve V]

i have manley valves and the guides were cut. and i don't think that noise would only come after the car is warm.

the only thing that makes any sense is a lifter. my oil pressure is 20 warm idle and 50+ under throttle so i would think that elimates a bearing issue.

is there anyway to verify that a lifter is sticking? or a good way to get them unstuck? (aside from taking the intake off)

Good,I agree also. Order up a set of Morels. My lifters are noisey too.

 

[ryan319]

i cleaned the lifters with mineral spirits and soaked them in oil. i'm starting to think that maybe i didn't soak them long enough in the mineral spirits.

i pulled the valve covers and ran the motor for a few minutes with them off and the valvetrain looked normal but the motor wasn't completely hot. then i put the covers back on, went for a short spin and the noise came back after the car was hot.

it really sounds like lifter noise, in the front, either #1 or #2, more likely #2. i only have maybe 3 miles on the motor.

think i should just run it easy to see if it breaks loose? or should i run some detergant or different weight oil to see if it changes anything?

just trying to troubleshoot all possibilities before i pull the motor apart again.

 

[ryan319]

just to bring some closure to this thread.

i went for a short, easy ride today, about 5 miles and the motor started rapping. and i didn't really like the beat.

so, the car is back in the garage and the motor is coming out. i assume i'll find the problem after disassembling it. hopefully i can get it back on the road this summer.

 

[getchasum]

Do you have roller rockers of stock shaft? The reason I ask is, if you're still running the stock shafts did you check preload on every lifter? I run the stock shafts and lets just say I've got a very custom set of push rods to get the preload where I wanted it.

 

[m233roller]

Bearings???

 

[ryan319]

Bearings???

that's what i'm thinking the noise got progressively worse and the oil pressure dropped. i guess it's time for a rebuild.

i should have just pulled the motor and did new bearings and rings when i put the roller in. oh well, live and learn. it should be ready to rock in a month.

 

[ryan319]

got the motor out over the weekend and tore it down yesterday. front main bearing was down to the copper. #1 rod bearing was spun. i didn't go any farther than that as i'd seen enough. luckily the block looks OK.

the motor was hurt when i bought the car and i knew it but i didn't expect to find all this. it had a broken rocker shaft, 2 wiped lobes, and bearing damage. the deeper i got into, the more damage i found. luckily the new roller cam and components i put in were not damaged. so i didn't lose anything but my time and some gaskets. i'm getting really educated on the car though.

it's going to the machine shop thursday. probably getting a new crank and some rods. probably going to go with bigger injectors and a new TT chip too.

 

[SPOOLFOOL2]

Sorry to hear this.

Just take your time, build the bottom end into a solid foundation that will let you do future performance mods and not have to worry about redoing it.

This is the last place you want to cut corners on. Do it right and you wont regret it.

Mike B.