Is the grand national a muscle car

[HouTX87]

Gas crisis of the '70's. There was an evolution of the turbo 6. Buicks idea was to bring back the horsepower and gas mileage with a turbocharged v6. Too bad it eventually outran the corvette and GM said no no.

 

[TurboTGuy]

"Muscle Car"? I don't know.... And is having that designation really important?

For me, it's not important at all.

What IS important is that my 25 year old American built grandpa Buick will walk just about any car that:

A. Is a true street Muscle Car with an Owner having the attitude to match.
B. Is a true street Racy Ricer with an Owner having the attitude to match.
C. Is a true street Euro "Ego" Enlarger with an Owner having the attitude to match.
E. Is a truly fast street Muscle Car.
F. Is a truly fast streeet Racy Ricer.
G. Is a truly fast street Euro "Ego" Enlarger.

So, in conclusion, if any, and I mean ANY, one of the above has the balls to step up, school is always in session!

Muscle Car?

Why would I want to go slow enough to be called a Muscle Car?

I don't know, maybe my priorities are sort of messed up..... but then again... maybe I just love having a Bad Ass'd street car......

 

[whitehot84]

"Muscle Car"? I don't know.... And is having that designation really important?

For me, it's not important at all.

What IS important is that my 25 year old American built grandpa Buick will walk just about any car that:

A. Is a true street Muscle Car with an Owner having the attitude to match.
B. Is a true street Racy Ricer with an Owner having the attitude to match.
C. Is a true street Euro "Ego" Enlarger with an Owner having the attitude to match.
E. Is a truly fast street Muscle Car.
F. Is a truly fast streeet Racy Ricer.
G. Is a truly fast street Euro "Ego" Enlarger.

So, in conclusion, if any, and I mean ANY, one of the above has the balls to step up, school is always in session!

Muscle Car?

Why would I want to go slow enough to be called a Muscle Car?

I don't know, maybe my priorities are sort of messed up..... but then again... maybe I just love having a Bad Ass'd street car......

Exactly

 

[Amelio]

"Muscle Car"? I don't know.... And is having that designation really important?

For me, it's not important at all.

What IS important is that my 25 year old American built grandpa Buick will walk just about any car that:

A. Is a true street Muscle Car with an Owner having the attitude to match.
B. Is a true street Racy Ricer with an Owner having the attitude to match.
C. Is a true street Euro "Ego" Enlarger with an Owner having the attitude to match.
E. Is a truly fast street Muscle Car.
F. Is a truly fast streeet Racy Ricer.
G. Is a truly fast street Euro "Ego" Enlarger.

So, in conclusion, if any, and I mean ANY, one of the above has the balls to step up, school is always in session!

Muscle Car?

Why would I want to go slow enough to be called a Muscle Car?

I don't know, maybe my priorities are sort of messed up..... but then again... maybe I just love having a Bad Ass'd street car......

I agree the term is not imporatnt but I do think of it as Modern Muscle....

But the rest of your statement made me chuckle.......

I really love these cars I have had 3 GN's but I have also grown up around nothing but old iron! and I love most all the old muscle. Now unless I am misunderstanding with what you stated you are saying that TR's are pretty much the fastest thing out there..... As you said your grandpa Buick will walk most any "truly fast Muscle car" now thats a strech!

Maybe your car will (I dont know how fast your car is) but not every TR prowling the streets is a 10 second or faster ride!

Infact most of the TR's I run across are not that fast at all atleast in my area.....now on the other hand I know of tons of old iron that are 10 second street cars or faster. I like many other members are a fan of both.....my '69 vette is a handful and even more so on spray....it runs very good and is a ton less complicated than my Buick!

Now I am not talking about what they are capable of either....lets face it not all TR owners are equal in their tuning capabilities....if that was the case then every TR would be a 9 second car and your statement would pretty much be dead on. I like lots of other guys on here know of cars that have the parts and potential to be very fast but they are not due to lack of tuning knowledge.

Also your other statement about "Racy Ricer's" now I am not a fan of the import scene but I do give credit where credit is due......now while there is a ton of turds out there that have the fart can exhaust and make me laugh there are plenty of really fast imports! Now 9 outta 10 I roll up on the street are slow and are no problem but there are 10 and 9 second imports out there and some of them you would never guess to be that fast!

So in conclsion TR's are like any other hot rod\muscle car the proformance potential is in the hands of the builder\tuner not all are equal and therfore not all TR's are blistering fast!

 

[TurboTGuy]

I agree the term is not imporatnt but I do think of it as Modern Muscle....

But the rest of your statement made me chuckle.......

I really love these cars I have had 3 GN's but I have also grown up around nothing but old iron! and I love most all the old muscle. Now unless I am misunderstanding with what you stated you are saying that TR's are pretty much the fastest thing out there..... As you said your grandpa Buick will walk most any "truly fast Muscle car" now thats a strech!

Maybe your car will (I dont know how fast your car is) but not every TR prowling the streets is a 10 second or faster ride!

Infact most of the TR's I run across are not that fast at all atleast in my area.....now on the other hand I know of tons of old iron that are 10 second street cars or faster. I like many other members are a fan of both.....my '69 vette is a handful and even more so on spray....it runs very good and is a ton less complicated than my Buick!

Now I am not talking about what they are capable of either....lets face it not all TR owners are equal in their tuning capabilities....if that was the case then every TR would be a 9 second car and your statement would pretty much be dead on. I like lots of other guys on here know of cars that have the parts and potential to be very fast but they are not due to lack of tuning knowledge.

Also your other statement about "Racy Ricer's" now I am not a fan of the import scene but I do give credit where credit is due......now while there is a ton of turds out there that have the fart can exhaust and make me laugh there are plenty of really fast imports! Now 9 outta 10 I roll up on the street are slow and are no problem but there are 10 and 9 second imports out there and some of them you would never guess to be that fast!

So in conclsion TR's are like any other hot rod\muscle car the proformance potential is in the hands of the builder\tuner not all are equal and therfore not all TR's are blistering fast!

Each car I mentioned had "street" in the description.

By that I mean licensed, insured and street driven regularly. Not a necessarily a Daily Driver, but a Street Car. Not a Trailer Queen but a Street Car..

Are you getting my point here? No roll bar or cage, no tubbed out rear, not a purpose built race car that you sneak out on the street occasionally and hope you don't get pulled over......

A STREET CAR.

Mine is a street car, a low ten second street car.

This past Saturday night I drove it to 55 miles from my house to Speedworld, clicked off a 10.72 @ 127.5 on street tires, 20 lbs of boost and a less than optimum track. I could have gone much faster but that "no roll bar" thing had the track officials giving me a freindly warning to "slow it down" so I drove her on back home getting 24 mpg.

Like my statement said:

"A. Is a true street Muscle Car with an Owner having the attitude to match.
B. Is a true street Racy Ricer with an Owner having the attitude to match.
C. Is a true street Euro "Ego" Enlarger with an Owner having the attitude to match.
E. Is a truly fast street Muscle Car.
F. Is a truly fast streeet Racy Ricer.
G. Is a truly fast street Euro "Ego" Enlarger.

In conclusion, if any, and I mean ANY, one of the above has the balls to step up, school is always in session! "

I stand by EVERY word.

Bring that 'Vette on out of the garage, let's go play!

 

[broke]

I dont care what its called. Its fast,uncommon,and unique and those are the reasons i waste too much money on an eighties car. I cant really think of a "muscle car" that i would rather have.

 

[Turbotre]

Wow,and I thought it was a "YES or NO" question.

 

[mgmshar]

My recollection is that a "muscle car", at least in the 60's, was an intermediate size car with a large engine stuffed in it...

Grand National an intermediate size car? Check.

A large engine stuffed in it? Maybe not an engine that was physically large and heavy, but from a power and torque standpoint, a "large engine". Check.

So, it's a muscle car...

Mike
Sent from my HTC Droid Incredible using Turbo Buick

 

[Amelio]

Each car I mentioned had "street" in the description.

By that I mean licensed, insured and street driven regularly. Not a necessarily a Daily Driver, but a Street Car. Not a Trailer Queen but a Street Car..

Are you getting my point here? No roll bar or cage, no tubbed out rear, not a purpose built race car that you sneak out on the street occasionally and hope you don't get pulled over......

A STREET CAR.

Mine is a street car, a low ten second street car.

This past Saturday night I drove it to 55 miles from my house to Speedworld, clicked off a 10.72 @ 127.5 on street tires, 20 lbs of boost and a less than optimum track. I could have gone much faster but that "no roll bar" thing had the track officials giving me a freindly warning to "slow it down" so I drove her on back home getting 24 mpg.

Like my statement said:

"A. Is a true street Muscle Car with an Owner having the attitude to match.
B. Is a true street Racy Ricer with an Owner having the attitude to match.
C. Is a true street Euro "Ego" Enlarger with an Owner having the attitude to match.
E. Is a truly fast street Muscle Car.
F. Is a truly fast streeet Racy Ricer.
G. Is a truly fast street Euro "Ego" Enlarger.

In conclusion, if any, and I mean ANY, one of the above has the balls to step up, school is always in session! "

I stand by EVERY word.

Bring that 'Vette on out of the garage, let's go play!

yes your definition of a street car is the same as mine I get your point lol!

I think a street car is exactly how you described.....and as I mentioned before there are plenty of old iron muscle cars "street" trim that run in the 10's.....My buddies '68 camero with a 454 runs 10.60 @126 no cage not tubbed a street car..... many cars I know of like this including my uncles camero very plain BBC.

No doubt you have a great running car...I'm just saying there is plenty of old iron in "Street Trim" that can run like that also.....are you getting my point? Maybe the Muscle car scene is not the same in your area as mine????

Your "in conclusion" comment makes me laugh do you not have many people that are willing to race you out there? There are always big talkers but then again out here there are plenty of guys that can back it up....I prefer to walk softly and carry a big stick!

Would love to come out and play but we dont live so close

 

[TurboTGuy]

yes your definition of a street car is the same as mine I get your point lol!

I think a street car is exactly how you described.....and as I mentioned before there are plenty of old iron muscle cars "street" trim that run in the 10's.....My buddies '68 camero with a 454 runs 10.60 @126 no cage not tubbed a street car..... many cars I know of like this including my uncles camero very plain BBC.

No doubt you have a great running car...I'm just saying there is plenty of old iron in "Street Trim" that can run like that also.....are you getting my point? Maybe the Muscle car scene is not the same in your area as mine????

Your "in conclusion" comment makes me laugh do you not have many people that are willing to race you out there? There are always big talkers but then again out here there are plenty of guys that can back it up....I prefer to walk softly and carry a big stick!

Would love to come out and play but we dont live so close

Yeah, I'm getting your point, .

Actually, I can think of nothing that makes me give a bigger nod of approval to the owner of a car than the sound of a big lumpy cam in nice looking muscle car.

I prefer to walk softly and carry a big stick, too. My car is a plain butcher paper white wrapped Limited with a blue crushed velour bench seat interior and a column shifter. There are plenty of folks out here that will give me a run for my money..... and I'll take all comers. That is one of the points I was trying to make.

But I guess the real point I was trying to make is that people can call my car anything they want. If some beansack wants to pigeon hole the car with some sort of designation because it does or doesn't meet some sort of ambigous criteria as dictated by whatever "expert" is currently looking at my car, so be it. It just doesn't matter to me.

Besides, GN's get all the respect anyway , so I'll just have to live with the dumb questions like "Why did you paint a GN white?" or "Why did you go and ruin it by taking the V8 out of it?"...

Too bad about the 'Vette though......

 

[tzque]

Guys
I have benifited from the how tos as much as everyone else but is good to read a debate .

 

[GNICETRY]

I posted this from my previous thread:

My son and I have this debate sometimes. He mostly just busts my chops. We have Forza 3 and I went to put my Buick in the Musclecar challenge and it wouldn't let me stating that my car was out of class or something. So he started popping some smack about how the GN is not a real musclecar. I found this website: Musclecarclub.com - Muscle Car Definition
It has a pretty good definition of a musclecar but I don't agree with the whole thing. It states:A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.
A GNX ($30,000) 1987 money is not considered affordable to me and therefore wouldn't be a musclecar

I like the definition of: it is an American intermediate sized car (has a real back seat) that is based on a 'regular' model that has a front mounted high performance engine, HD or upgraded suspension and some kind of modified or unique interior. Oh, and it MUST lay some rubber for about 50ft.

I also do believe that the definition is evolving as time goes on. Quick used to be 14 sec 1/4 mile. 2013 V6 Nissan Altimas are running 14.3's.​

 

[Ttype6]

Modern Muscle Car?
It has a motor from 1962.
It rolls on a chassis from 1964.

 

[UNGN]

Modern Muscle Car?
It has a motor from 1962.
It rolls on a chassis from 1964.

True, but it has Rectangular Headlights, ran on unleaded gas and had one of those new fangled Computer Chips controlling it... therefore, its Modern.

The word "Modern" is relative.

Modern Man is newer than 200,000 years old.

 

[wv-t]

I have studied muscle cars for 25 years. From the 55 Chrysler 300 & 57 Chevy fi 283 to the Turbo Buicks to the Dodge Challengers and some of the Mustangs today, the muscle car was an American made 2 door (seating for 4 or 6) sedan with a hot powerful engine and related hardware from the factory. Not homemade hot rods. Isn't there a v6 Mustang today that makes 300+ horsepower? 2009 Chevy Cobalt SS with blown 4 cylinder was 0-60 in 5.7 seconds. All American muscle car sedans. Some heavyweights (70 LS6 Chevelle) and some are lightweights (1984 Hurst Olds).

 

[Amelio]

Yeah, I'm getting your point, .

Actually, I can think of nothing that makes me give a bigger nod of approval to the owner of a car than the sound of a big lumpy cam in nice looking muscle car.

I prefer to walk softly and carry a big stick, too. My car is a plain butcher paper white wrapped Limited with a blue crushed velour bench seat interior and a column shifter. There are plenty of folks out here that will give me a run for my money..... and I'll take all comers. That is one of the points I was trying to make.

But I guess the real point I was trying to make is that people can call my car anything they want. If some beansack wants to pigeon hole the car with some sort of designation because it does or doesn't meet some sort of ambigous criteria as dictated by whatever "expert" is currently looking at my car, so be it. It just doesn't matter to me.

Besides, GN's get all the respect anyway , so I'll just have to live with the dumb questions like "Why did you paint a GN white?" or "Why did you go and ruin it by taking the V8 out of it?"...

Too bad about the 'Vette though......

We are on exactly the same page lol!

If a big lumpy cam gets your nod of approval my vette would ....its a a 12:1 aluminum small block with a healthy cam

You actually have a great sleeper and no one would ever see or realize the power you get from radiused valve stems lol!....I have a hard time getting into street races with my vette cause of the way it sounds (side pipes with one set of baffels....very very loud!) or the Buick because of the badging.

Like you I dont care what anybody calls it I am always down....put up or shut up right

I am enjoying this thread....lots of different views and opinions some make me laugh....either way Buick made a bad ass ride a I am just glad to say I have one weather it runs 14's or 10's

 

[Fast Farmer]

Maybe the term "muscle car"just needs to be as the name implies. A car that has muscle. Forget all the other differences.