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Is this Justice??

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86brick

It's just a V6 Brick.....
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
Messages
13,614
http://www.local6.com/news/5455010/detail.html

30 years in prison because the police officer had a blow out while he was chasing him????? :eek: So what if a police officer gets called out to a domestic dispute and on the way over he blows a red light and somebody T-bones him and he dies?? Will they give the people having the domestic dispute 30 years as well:confused:

I'm sorry, the police officer died and I feel for his wife, but this is just ridiculous in my opinion! What if the shoe was on the other foot and the police officer caused a deadly accident while chasing the motorcyclist?? Would the police officer get 30 years in prison? :rolleyes: Something tells me he wouldn't...
 
He was killed in the line of duty, by his own negliance. Do I think it's justice....NO. But this is the way the system works. It's a benifiet of the doubt wether or not the motor cycle rider seen the police officer chasing him. BTW, what sentence did the guy receive that was driving the Porsch? Something isn't right here.
 
bruce said:
86brick said:
http://www.local6.com/news/5455010/detail.html
Yes, it is justice.
IMO, the criminal got away lightly.

Why stop at convicting the motorcyclist??

Maybe the tire company or the people who service the police officer's car are also responsible in the same instance?? Who's to say he had the proper tire pressure in his tires (maybe they were bald??) or that they were balanced correctly:confused:

I don't agree with what the motorcyclist did but 30 years is a "little" too much IMO!

Hell, let's just say that one day I'm on the Florida turnpike and I decide to do 90 in a 75 (I can be honest and admit that I speed on ocassion).... Now the FHP officer pulls out mistakingly and gets hit by an 18 wheeler.. Am I now liable for his death :eek: If so that is quite scary..........
 
Raymond Bunch said:
He was killed in the line of duty, by his own negliance. Do I think it's justice....NO. But this is the way the system works. It's a benifiet of the doubt wether or not the motor cycle rider seen the police officer chasing him. BTW, what sentence did the guy receive that was driving the Porsch? Something isn't right here.

I don't think they got whomever was driving the Porsche..
 
Raymond Bunch said:
He was killed in the line of duty, by his own negliance. Do I think it's justice....NO. But this is the way the system works. It's a benifiet of the doubt wether or not the motor cycle rider seen the police officer chasing him. BTW, what sentence did the guy receive that was driving the Porsch? Something isn't right here.

In what way was he neglient?.

If it wasn't for the motorcylist actions none of this would have happened. Maybe to some, it's OK for a criminal to get others killed, but, IMO, they should bear the full burden of their descissions. He failed to comply, the cop was acting within his guidelines, I fail to see why the criminal should get a break.
 
I don't think it matters if the motorcyclist saw the trooper or not!!!! 30 years:eek:
 
86brick said:
Why stop at convicting the motorcyclist??

Maybe the tire company or the people who service the police officer's car are also responsible in the same instance?? Who's to say he had the proper tire pressure in his tires (maybe they were bald??) or that they were balanced correctly:confused:

I don't agree with what the motorcyclist did but 30 years is a "little" too much IMO!

Hell, let's just say that one day I'm on the Florida turnpike and I decide to do 90 in a 75 (I can be honest and admit that I speed on ocassion).... Now the FHP officer pulls out mistakingly and gets hit by an 18 wheeler.. Am I now liable for his death :eek: If so that is quite scary..........

So far, that's only what's been determined. I'd imagine the tire co involved has been investigated.

A cop died, nothing his life is over, the criminal only got 30 years, not life.

Yes, you might try reading up on you vehicle laws, if a cop kills someone in an accident while chasing you, you'll probably get charged with at least vehicular manslaughter. Criminals are responsible for their actions, and the damages of those trying to enforce societie's laws. Drive a get-away car in a robbery where someone is killed, and you can get the same jail term as the perp pulling the trigger.
 
bruce said:
In what way was he neglient?.

If it wasn't for the motorcylist actions none of this would have happened. Maybe to some, it's OK for a criminal to get others killed, but, IMO, they should bear the full burden of their descissions. He failed to comply, the cop was acting within his guidelines, I fail to see why the criminal should get a break.

Maybe because he had NO intent of killing the trooper... There are people that make the decision to shoot/stap someone and get off a LOT easier than 30 years......
 
86brick said:
I don't think it matters if the motorcyclist saw the trooper or not!!!! 30 years:eek:

THE COP IS DEAD! !!!
That's forever.

People should think before they do something that dumb. If they don't, oh well, maybe because of their actions, others will.
 
86brick said:
Maybe because he had NO intent of killing the trooper... There are people that make the decision to shoot/stap someone and get off a LOT easier than 30 years......

Intent isn't the issue, in this case.
If you don't like the law, work to change it.
 
bruce said:
So far, that's only what's been determined. I'd imagine the tire co involved has been investigated.

A cop died, nothing his life is over, the criminal only got 30 years, not life.

Yes, you might try reading up on you vehicle laws, if a cop kills someone in an accident while chasing you, you'll probably get charged with at least vehicular manslaughter. Criminals are responsible for their actions, and the damages of those trying to enforce societie's laws. Drive a get-away car in a robbery where someone is killed, and you can get the same jail term as the perp pulling the trigger.

Isn't there a bit of a difference between driving a getaway car in a robbery where someone is killed and speeding on the highway?? :confused: :eek:

I could be wrong (certainly wouldn't be the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last) but I see a VERY big difference between the two...

FWIW, I plan on driving the speed limit now! Look out for me in the right lane..
 
I dont think he should have gotten 30 years either. I also think we need more information on how it happened. Did the cop just begin the pursuit of the vehicle when his tire blew? Or was he chasing the suspect for a good deal of time before it happened. That would be a determining factor for me.
 
bruce said:
In what way was he neglient?.

If it wasn't for the motorcylist actions none of this would have happened. Maybe to some, it's OK for a criminal to get others killed, but, IMO, they should bear the full burden of their descissions. He failed to comply, the cop was acting within his guidelines, I fail to see why the criminal should get a break.


I think he was neglient due to the fact no one can out run the police radio. Things could have been diffrent with a little more corridnation and communication with other law enforcement personnel on the ground. Furthur more, he probably should'nt have been going the rate of speed he was going which also contributed to the accident. From the picture of the officer he is older, thus his reflexes are allot slower and his own action could have contributed to his death by element of surprise. Who know's for sure....

I really feel for his family, they are the real victims. But giving an individual 30 years for something he didn't cause is just plain nuts. Individual who kill people drinking and driving serve far less time, people who shoot and kill people with gun serve less time, we can go on and on with this.
 
Raymond Bunch said:
I think he was neglient due to the fact no one can out run the police radio. Things could have been diffrent with a little more corridnation and communication with other law enforcement personnel on the ground. Furthur more, he probably should'nt have been going the rate of speed he was going which also contributed to the accident. From the picture of the officer he is older, thus his reflexes are allot slower and his own action could have contributed to his death by element of surprise. Who know's for sure....

I really feel for his family, they are the real victims. But giving an individual 30 years for something he didn't cause is just plain nuts. Individual who kill people drinking and driving serve far less time, people who shoot and kill people with gun serve less time, we can go on and on with this.

Are you an actor? The reason I ask is I cannot believe anyone else could make such a statement other than one of the, cause of the week, pick me up in your UFO, haven't got a clue, screen personalities so prevalent in Hollywood. This man died trying to uphold his sworn duties to protect the public. How can you call him negligent? True you cannot out run the radio but he would have been negligent if he had let them go. Suppose this guy had been pointing a gun at someone's head. Would you have wanted the officer to say "I don't want him to shoot me, I will let him go and call someone else." No, I think you would want this officer to put himself in harm's way and try to prevent this gun weilding person from killing someone. It's not the same you say, yes it is!

These criminals' (Yes, they are criminals just as we are if we exceed the speed limit or rob a bank.) choice of weapons were motor vehicles. They are just as dangerous and potentially deadly as any firearm. The article states that the motorcycle was racing a Porsche. I do not think they were only going 75 in a 60 mph zone. These two were in wanton disregard for the law and endangering anyone on the interstate as well as themselves. If this officer had let these two go and a mile up the interstate they ran a school bus off the road and killed 7 kids would he have been negligent?

You cannot out run the radio but the way the laws are written you have to make a positive identification on the vehicle by getting the tag number or in some states once you lose a visual on the vehicle then he has gotten away and you cannot arrest the operator at a later time. I do not know Fla's laws as it pertains to this but he may have only been trying to get close enough to identify the vehicles. Yes he had a radio and I am sure he was using it but like all law enforcement agencies I am sure that they do not have enough officers to place one every couple of miles 24 hours a day so he may have not known if anyone else was in a position to assist him. So then what did he do? What he was supposed to! His job.

He did not choose the rate of speed that he was having to drive. He was having to drive that rate to try to catch the two who made the decision to break the law. Then you state, "From the picture of the officer he is older, thus his reflexes are allot slower and his own actions could have contributed to his death". How do you tell how good his reflexes were from a photo? Just because he may appear older than you are does not mean he needed to give up his license and retire. You may be younger than many people on here but I think they would agree that was just an idiotic thing to say and they would go against you any day of the week in a reflex contest. You are right though when you said who knows for sure. But I bet people will agree that physics and Newton's laws played a much larger role in his death than his reflexes did if they remember that his tire blew out.

At least you do admit there was a crime when you say that his family were the real victims. Yes they are. I know that we are playing a what if and why game. So to continue, what if someone with a gun fired a bullet up into the air, did not aim at anyone but just shot up in the air, and this bullet came down and killed a little girl playing in a field. Would the person, even though he did not mean to, be guilty of killing this girl? If he didn't mean to then it was an accident and people should not be punished for accidents should they? Why not? This person knew that the bullet had to land somewhere
and shot it anyway, therefore he was responsible. This racer knew street racing was illegal. It did not matter if he saw the officer or not. He pulled the trigger anyway.

As far as the sentence given you have to look at it in perspective. Was this a high profile crime. I would say that since an officer lost his life then yes it was so the judge handed out the maximum sentence. There is more than a good chance that this individual will be able to go back to court and get it reduced in the future. I must admit that I am not familiar with Florida's sentencing structure but if it is anything like the fair sentencing act that used to be used in NC then his time is automatically cut in half for good behavior anyway and as long as he stays out of trouble in prison then he will be eligible for parole even sooner. BTW, the man that killed the little girl by shooting up in the air got 25 years for doing it even though he did not mean to.

People think speeding is not a crime. It's not as long as you do not get caught. Then they say it's a victimless crime. But this time there was a victim and although the racer did not physically cause the blow out he was the one who committed the crime that caused the chase.

Did he get what he deserved? YES. Alec Baldwin, go home!
 
i realy hope to hell there's more to this story,if there isn't we are all going to pay the price on day, he claims he never even saw the cop??? i hope a autopcey(sp) was done on the officer what if the tire blew after the crash?
heart attack,or some thing else.. the tire is to blame more than the bike rider
imo. so what some are saying he was racing cop doing his job died,, bikes falt,
so an officer responding to a call where i ran a stop sign and cause an accident, dies rushing to the seen because injurys were reported,, i could,
would or my be held lieable.. even tho he was chasing him, he only died after the tire blew, if that tire would'nt of blew he'd be alive today...
 
corsair231 said:
Are you an actor? The reason I ask is I cannot believe anyone else could make such a statement other than one of the, cause of the week, pick me up in your UFO, haven't got a clue, screen personalities so prevalent in Hollywood. This man died trying to uphold his sworn duties to protect the public.

Amen and THANKS, Corsair231.As a veteran LEO, I was trying to come up with a pointed and reasonable response to some of the replies I've read on here and I think you covered it extremely well...Since some of the replies were filled with supposition and conjecture and the ever popular what if game...What if the fools racing on the highway had lost control of their cars and crashed into one of YOUR family members killing them..Surely the racers had no "intent" to kill anyone...Or perhaps the cop had backed off fearing his tire would blow, but wasnt close enough to get a plate # and they got away..There would probably be a line to sue the cop who didnt go after them and anyone else they could go after...ok..enough ranting about lack of self responsibility...and yes, reckless driving or any other motor vehicle violation is technically a "crime"..a "summons" is short for SUMMONS IN LIEU OF ARREST

Again, GREAT job by Corsair231
 
corsair231 said:
Are you an actor? The reason I ask is I cannot believe anyone else could make such a statement other than one of the, cause of the week, pick me up in your UFO, haven't got a clue, screen personalities so prevalent in Hollywood. This man died trying to uphold his sworn duties to protect the public. How can you call him negligent? True you cannot out run the radio but he would have been negligent if he had let them go. Suppose this guy had been pointing a gun at someone's head. Would you have wanted the officer to say "I don't want him to shoot me, I will let him go and call someone else." No, I think you would want this officer to put himself in harm's way and try to prevent this gun weilding person from killing someone. It's not the same you say, yes it is!

These criminals' (Yes, they are criminals just as we are if we exceed the speed limit or rob a bank.) choice of weapons were motor vehicles. They are just as dangerous and potentially deadly as any firearm. The article states that the motorcycle was racing a Porsche. I do not think they were only going 75 in a 60 mph zone. These two were in wanton disregard for the law and endangering anyone on the interstate as well as themselves. If this officer had let these two go and a mile up the interstate they ran a school bus off the road and killed 7 kids would he have been negligent?

You cannot out run the radio but the way the laws are written you have to make a positive identification on the vehicle by getting the tag number or in some states once you lose a visual on the vehicle then he has gotten away and you cannot arrest the operator at a later time. I do not know Fla's laws as it pertains to this but he may have only been trying to get close enough to identify the vehicles. Yes he had a radio and I am sure he was using it but like all law enforcement agencies I am sure that they do not have enough officers to place one every couple of miles 24 hours a day so he may have not known if anyone else was in a position to assist him. So then what did he do? What he was supposed to! His job.

He did not choose the rate of speed that he was having to drive. He was having to drive that rate to try to catch the two who made the decision to break the law. Then you state, "From the picture of the officer he is older, thus his reflexes are allot slower and his own actions could have contributed to his death". How do you tell how good his reflexes were from a photo? Just because he may appear older than you are does not mean he needed to give up his license and retire. You may be younger than many people on here but I think they would agree that was just an idiotic thing to say and they would go against you any day of the week in a reflex contest. You are right though when you said who knows for sure. But I bet people will agree that physics and Newton's laws played a much larger role in his death than his reflexes did if they remember that his tire blew out.

At least you do admit there was a crime when you say that his family were the real victims. Yes they are. I know that we are playing a what if and why game. So to continue, what if someone with a gun fired a bullet up into the air, did not aim at anyone but just shot up in the air, and this bullet came down and killed a little girl playing in a field. Would the person, even though he did not mean to, be guilty of killing this girl? If he didn't mean to then it was an accident and people should not be punished for accidents should they? Why not? This person knew that the bullet had to land somewhere
and shot it anyway, therefore he was responsible. This racer knew street racing was illegal. It did not matter if he saw the officer or not. He pulled the trigger anyway.

As far as the sentence given you have to look at it in perspective. Was this a high profile crime. I would say that since an officer lost his life then yes it was so the judge handed out the maximum sentence. There is more than a good chance that this individual will be able to go back to court and get it reduced in the future. I must admit that I am not familiar with Florida's sentencing structure but if it is anything like the fair sentencing act that used to be used in NC then his time is automatically cut in half for good behavior anyway and as long as he stays out of trouble in prison then he will be eligible for parole even sooner. BTW, the man that killed the little girl by shooting up in the air got 25 years for doing it even though he did not mean to.

People think speeding is not a crime. It's not as long as you do not get caught. Then they say it's a victimless crime. But this time there was a victim and although the racer did not physically cause the blow out he was the one who committed the crime that caused the chase.

Did he get what he deserved? YES. Alec Baldwin, go home!

Well said, too bad it'll probably fall on so many deaf ears.
 
it was an accident chit like this happens all the time, the bike guy is not at fault and i think is wrong he should spend 30 yrs of his life for something that he didnt cause, yes he was running yes he is a criminal but he did not make that tire blow out by throwing stuff on the pavement or shooting the tire out, how about when cops do that shots your tires out to make you stop or when they do the bump manuever to make you loose control of your car and stop you, what if you die when they do that what then?, i personaly dont think they will spend any time in jail because they where acting while on duty, same applies here he died while on duty and that is the bottom line, the criminal or person running from him should not be liable and spend 30 friking years for it.. just my 2 cents..
 
the cop is not supposed to do hi speed chasing in florida,if it seems to be endangering the driver or himself...so that being said its the COPS fault..plain and simple...most everyone here has raced someone on the street and luckily we smoke the doors off most cars right away and end it,but if its close we push it and put ourself and others around us in danger(somewhat and sometimes)..you dont see every car around us joining in?and if they did ,its not my fault if they crash,they made their choice...just like the cop did...he could have not played chase and played radio,much safer...so what would have happened if the cop took chase and ran over a kid?...i once was racing a car in my 68 camaro from a light,no cars ahead,im not even going 45 yet and a trooper goes by me the other way,slams his breaks on in his 5.0 and does a donut in the middle of the road to take chase,smoke roasting out of his tires?..i already let off and pulled over?..then after he is being a prick to me i explain that he made more of a danger on the road than me and if i planned on OUTRUNNING him he would not of had a chance in the piece of crap mustang,in which he than saw i was tired of listening to his crap and wanted a ticket..so even tho i was not going over the speed limit or trying to alude him,would i have been put in prison for his dumb ass actions????..its his job to make the decision on,safe or not safe,or call it in...that cop made the wrong one...just like the lady down here doing time for not telling the police her husbands real name before he got in the car(hands not put in the back of him,cops choice)and he killed both of them, then himself...shes still in jail???why.... (most) cops and the system SUCK....
 
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