Just day dreaming

[TurboDave]

Most of you know I've got a couple BMS Aluminum SII blocks sitting around.

STill trying to decide what to do. It'll be a long process building either of them (budget constraints).

So, I have the blocks, and one set of real nice SII al. heads.

Here's what I'm wondering. How much horsepower might one reasonably expect to make in a N/A configuration? Either carburated or throttle body EFI'd. Also assuming high compression pistons and a very radical cam.

Any ideas? 550 maybe?
Going N/A could easilly save me at least $5,000.

 

[Mac in SD]

Dave, they were making mid-500's in the Busch motors a la Ruggles. That was with a 4.5 litre engine. But keep in mind, they were revving them above 9,000 RPM, too. I'll email you later with some ideas on saving money.

 

[turbodave231]

Dave,

Why not a tunnel ram with say a 850CFM carb and a 300HP shot of nitrous?

The S2 engine is strong enough to handle 800 HP in turbocharged trim......why not NA with Nitrous?

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Mac in SD
Dave, they were making mid-500's in the Busch motors a la Ruggles. That was with a 4.5 litre engine. But keep in mind, they were revving them above 9,000 RPM, too. I'll email you later with some ideas on saving money.

Thanks Kean, I await your response with bated breath

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by turbodave231
Dave,

Why not a tunnel ram with say a 850CFM carb and a 300HP shot of nitrous?

The S2 engine is strong enough to handle 800 HP in turbocharged trim......why not NA with Nitrous?

Thanks Dave. Normally your last sentance I would agree with, unfortunately, I have the BMS aluminum SII blocks. I'm not sure if they'll hold 800 reliably. I'm pretty confident they'll hold 750 pretty easy.
Also, if you new how I feel about nitrous, well, we'll leave it lay. I've got a few of the right parts. SII on center intake (new). A REAL nice pair of heads, but the chambers are only about 42-44cc's.

My day dreaming consisted of wondering how a nice 4 barrel SII v6 would feel in a GN for example, with a 4 speed behind it. It shouldn't be too doggy down low, if I'm carefull with cam selection etc...

This is the all aluminum block:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/80287028/118851065zgahbf
That has the biggest bore (4.020) and would be good for either turbo or N/A (I think).

This is the sleeved block and as such, can probably on be bored out to 3.830 max (safely). Which would probably be better turbo'd. ??

http://community.webshots.com/photo/80287028/103442859EexUKT

 

[TurboDave]

As a follow-up, here's the heads:

http://community.webshots.com/photo/80287028/190470810LexEJG

http://community.webshots.com/photo/80287028/190470934sOOsmL

 

[ijames]

Well, Bob Mustic posts here pretty often, and he has a n/a stage II in a cobra replica that runs somewhere in the 11.0 range, give or take .25. There was a GN at the BPG Nationals in Salem, OH a couple of months ago that was running a n/a stage II basically straight out of a busch car. Door said "Pendik Racing", and I think he was from central Ohio or maybe western PA - very friendly guy to talk to. He was running a 400 trans with about a 5000 stall converter, launching at 5-6000 and shifting to 2nd before the 60' lights at about 8500 rpm, then to 3rd well before the 1/8th, and running way over that thru the lights. He was running 5.38 gears and seemed quicker to the 1/8th than some 10 sec cars he ran next to, but gave it back on top end. He ran a bunch of 11.20's. He said that he put new bearings in back in '98 when he built the car, and they still looked new last year when he checked them. I forget the exact weight but with him in the car it was about 3200 lbs so that's about 450 rwhp on average which has to be at least 550 at the flywheel given that loose converter. Sure had a mean "burr" sound with the open headers and no turbo for a muffler .

 

[Ron Tarabori]

Hi Dave, Looks like you have made the move ok. I think I'm going to tell you what you probably don't want to hear. If it was me (and nobody has a more limited buget than me when it comes to racing) I think I would park the alum pieces in the corner of the garage. I would look for a good Busch or ASA motor and go from there. You will save a lot of headaches and I'm sure a lot of money in the long run especially if you stick with the carb idea. Most of the guys think that because of the huge port and valve size of the stage head that these motors cant possibly have any bottom end. Not true. The motor that Bob has in his Cobra was a odd fire ASA motor that I sold him. Put Busch heads on it to raise the compression up a little. The cam he is running is a Reed ULX grind that is the same as I run in my dirt car. He will tell you how well the engine behaves at low speed and how fast it is. Most of the guys that know me know that I run a circle track dirt modified with a odd fire Stage motor. The 3 local tracks that we run have a 355 cube limit so we run agains a full field of small blocks. We have won a track championship and several feature events. A couple of months ago we decided to go downstate and try our luck against what they call E Mods. They have two engine rules: No aluminum blocks and must be carbureted. So we ran against 406, 410 and 383 small block chevies, most on alcohol. In the two weeks we went down we had a 4th and a 3rd place finish. This was with a 9 to 1 ASA motor on pump gas. Have already started a alky motor for next year. Can't wait to go back. They laughed when we unloaded the first week but not the next time. Did I get off track here? I've seen the pics you sent me etc. and unless I really needed that weight saving I guess I just wouldn't do it. Build a good iron 12 to 1 stage motor and you can beat the crap out of it and have fun doing it.

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Ron Tarabori
Hi Dave, Looks like you have made the move ok.
<snip>

Well, not exactly Ron. We're still here in Ann Arbor, MI until the house in TN gets finished (Early Dec).

I'm only "thinking" about different options because N/A parts seem to be easier to find (high comp. pistons, headers, intakes, etc. etc.) so it would be cheep. I just don't think I could give up the aluminum blocks. Trying to find a used iron SII block that's healthy would cost me a lot more than both of these cost, and decidedly unknown quality. These al. blocks (never used) saved me a ton of money, and I'm sure I'll sell one to finance the other, just gotta find the right buyer, BUT not until I decide which one to build.
I like the cubic inch potential of the all aluminum block, but I'm stuck with the 4.020 bore (custom pistons).
The sleeved block's bores are yet to be machined so any bore from 3.800 to 3.830 is open, but that limits my cubic inch availability, so it's going to be a tough choice.

Lot's of choices to make.

 

[Ron Tarabori]

Dave, If you go th n/a route I would go with the odd fire like Bob and I run. Parts are easier and cheaper to find. Also when you decide on what block etc you are going to use get in touch. I have about 50 sets on new Wiseco flat top pistons from 3.800 up. Just bought a couple of engines in Wisconsin so will be headed up that way in a couple of weeks. Ron

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Ron Tarabori
Dave, If you go th n/a route I would go with the odd fire like Bob and I run. Parts are easier and cheaper to find. Also when you decide on what block etc you are going to use get in touch. I have about 50 sets on new Wiseco flat top pistons from 3.800 up. Just bought a couple of engines in Wisconsin so will be headed up that way in a couple of weeks. Ron

Where in WI??? I go back there every few weeks to the family farm in the southwestern part.