Least inexpensive way to get my car in the mid 11s

[strikeeagle]

Just becasue your cars runs sub-par to what other's cars do doesn't mean you have to start with the personal attacks. I think your over inflated costs to build a car is just as much as a disservice to potentail turbo Buick builders as much as anything else. Just because you can't do your own work and over pay for things doesn't mean that others should do the same. I know how much I have in my car. I sold my last car and put the money in a seperate bank account. I bought this WE4 with a bad motor and turned it into a 10 second car. I added no more money to the account and I know how much is left therefore I know exactly how much I invested and it was less than $10K after the purchase price of the car and I started with a car that didn't run. I still have a lot of tuning to do because it has plenty left in it. I have long way to go to catch to Grumpy and he has a similar build with similar parts.

Yikes.

OK, Steve, that's good. Congratulations on your ride.

strike

 

[VETKILR]

Thanks everyone, has been very beneficial and i know now where i want to go with the car!

 

[salvageV6]

" Thanks everyone, has been very beneficial and i know now where i want to go with the car! "

Let me guess, another Turbo Buick website? :biggrin:

Everybody's right when you use the "new math".

 

[VETKILR]

haha no stay right here, interesting to hear how everyone go to their desired ets and their trial and errors along the way. Now my turn!:smile:

 

[NCTURBOS]

Curious, how long did the stock transmission hold up? I didn't think they could take that kind of power very long if at all.

Depending on the mileage already on the converter and tranny it could last awhile. TurboIndian's GN had 26k miles on the odometer and lasted 1yr.+. Higher mileage cars can be substancially less.

And we lock them up @ WOT as well!!


K.

 

[NCTURBOS]

My guess is he had a converter, a cooler and the tranny built - another $2K - cha-ching! That's what I'm talking about - people forget everything they did to get low 11s reliably.

strike

No... Stock D-5' & original tranny's in some. Others did have built tranny and converters. What I listed is it, plain and simple. Just a good combination of parts and some tuning.

It amazes me how many people have a hard time getting in the 11's with what I mentioned above. I remember seeing a post here lately by a long time member with a "new to him" car with almost every imaginable bolt-on available that just barely ET'd into the 11's. Everyone was congratulating him, telling him how well the car ran...


K.

 

[strikeeagle]

If you pick a good combo. of turbo and fuel system along with a TH style Dp and can't run low 11's...

Here's my list that I used on a few cars that ran low 11's @ 118mph+:

K&N filter
Ta/Te61 w/Garrett .63 housing
009's
adj. regulator
XP+ pump
THDP
RA chip
Comp 980 valve springs
sticky tires
datalogger
exhaust system/cut-out

That's it!! Nothing more, nothing less. All else stock.


K.

That's it? You stuck the K&N on the end of the MAF? No adjustable wastegate actuator? Sticky tires meaning 10.5" slicks on lightweight wheels? Did you use the factory spark plugs? The factory spark plug wires, separators and supports? Race gas or 93? A driveshaft loop? How about body mounts and braces to prevent tearing your cars up? A line lok? S-10 wheel cylinders? Soft brakes? An air bag or two? Stiffer rear control arm bushings? Aftermarket shocks? A 160 degree thermostat with a billet neck that won't fold like paper? And engine tiedown or poly motor mounts? Breathers? A PowerPlate? Shall I go on?

strike

 

[NCTURBOS]

That's it? You stuck the K&N on the end of the MAF? No adjustable wastegate actuator? Sticky tires meaning 10.5" slicks on lightweight wheels? Did you use the factory spark plugs? The factory spark plug wires, separators and supports? Race gas or 93? A driveshaft loop? How about body mounts and braces to prevent tearing your cars up? A line lok? S-10 wheel cylinders? Soft brakes? An air bag or two? Stiffer rear control arm bushings? Aftermarket shocks? A 160 degree thermostat with a billet neck that won't fold like paper? And engine tiedown or poly motor mounts? Breathers? A PowerPlate? Shall I go on?

strike

--Yes K&N on the end of the MAF...
--Adj. WG act. comes with the turbo when I order them... ($40.00)
--ET streets on the stock rims (I already listed these)...
--CR43TS plugs... ($8.00)
--RA wires ($24.00) on factory separators & supports
--Race gas
--RA Volt Booster ($69.00) but they don't work right...
--160* therm. ($6.00) stock inlet...
--Breather kits ($??)...

Anything else you mentioned in the quote that I didn't list the cars didn't have. So there's an additional $150 or so...

I know you've been around the boards a long time. And I've been in the game plenty long myself. So please go on... I've got 'ya covered.


K.

 

[strikeeagle]

--Yes K&N on the end of the MAF...
--Adj. WG act. comes with the turbo when I order them... ($40.00)
--ET streets on the stock rims (I already listed these)...
--CR43TS plugs... ($8.00)
--RA wires ($24.00) on factory separators & supports
--Race gas
--RA Volt Booster ($69.00) but they don't work right...
--160* therm. ($6.00) stock inlet...
--Breather kits ($??)...

Anything else you mentioned in the quote that I didn't list the cars didn't have. So there's an additional $150 or so...

I know you've been around the boards a long time. And I've been in the game plenty long myself. So please go on... I've got 'ya covered.


K.

So, we've already established you're either forgetful or a liar. Now, it's just a matter of degree. I suppose you used the stock hoses and clamps, too?

I'm just kidding. I know you've been around a long time, too. And I know you like to advertise that any TR can run low 11s for a few Gs, and if yours can't what's wrong with u?

The fact is, I've been through it too on 3 TRs now. And I'm not stupid, and I don't generally makes poor choices, or overspend, or pay someone to do work I can do, and I know what it takes.

When I chose the figure $10K for low 11s I knew it would raise eyebrows. Familiar eyebrows, if you get my drift. Is it erring on the high side? Probably. But is it double what it should be? Probably not.

The fact is, the Cotton's and Kirban's and Poston's of the world sell the bell-and-whistles I mention because they're needed and/or they add to reliability. Can you get by without a loop? Sure, if you're a cheater and don't care about your own and others' safety. Can you get by without you-name-it? Sure, Stockwell's car ran 10.76. ONCE...

I'd rather portray to a novice that it's a $10K proposition and you'll need all this stuff if you want to do it with some measure of safety and reliability, than he can do it with a few grand and a roll of duct tape. Unless he's an idiot, like you like to say. I know those whose espouse TR urban legend don't care for it, but it's just this guy's experience.

strike

 

[SMS]

I think most people here will agree that you could probably shovel $$$ into a car faster than a bonfire!:biggrin: How much money one spends could be the difference between what works, and what works better.

Steve

 

[NCTURBOS]

So, we've already established you're either forgetful or a liar. Now, it's just a matter of degree. I suppose you used the stock hoses and clamps, too?

I'm actually both to some degree... :biggrin: Just ask the same guys who's cars I built and mention in this thread!!

I'm just kidding. I know you've been around a long time, too. And I know you like to advertise that any TR can run low 11s for a few Gs, and if yours can't what's wrong with u?

Any TR can... And if someone wants to bring me their TR to perform the above items on my list, they will join the group. Heck, you want to try again for the 4th time.

The fact is, the Cotton's and Kirban's and Poston's of the world sell the bell-and-whistles...

I never mentioned those vendors in my list...

Sure, Stockwell's car ran 10.76. ONCE...

There is always the reliability/longevity issue whenever you push a car to the edge, especially with stock components. Low-11's is on the edge with my list. Mid-11's all day long though... :biggrin: I was probably at Dragway-42 that day when Tim was there. How do you think I figured the combo. out?

...Unless he's an idiot, like you like to say...

I never said anyone's an idiot. I do believe there are plenty of members with mis-matched combinations and the lack of local tuning support.


K.

 

[strikeeagle]

I think most people here will agree that you could probably shovel $$$ into a car faster than a bonfire!:biggrin: How much money one spends could be the difference between what works, and what works better.

Steve

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Pretty much anyone who's ever built one of these cars can describe a low ball way to get to a certain performance level. And a slice of these same folks will subscribe to the belief that such a build-up is safe, operable and reliable. While the remainder are equally convinced they'd never run like that.

Example - you can get by with a stock FPR, a socket and a hammer for $0, so long as it provides proper fueling. But most will probably opt for the $100 Accufab AFPR.

strike

 

[strikeeagle]

I'm actually both to some degree... :biggrin: Just ask the same guys who's cars I built and mention in this thread!!



Any TR can... And if someone wants to bring me their TR to perform the above items on my list, they will join the group. Heck, you want to try again for the 4th time.



I never mentioned those vendors in my list...



There is always the reliability/longevity issue whenever you push a car to the edge, especially with stock components. Low-11's is on the edge with my list. Mid-11's all day long though... :biggrin: I was probably at Dragway-42 that day when Tim was there. How do you think I figured the combo. out?



I never said anyone's an idiot. I do believe there are plenty of members with mis-matched combinations and the lack of local tuning support.


K.

My cars do just fine, thanks! I don't need you to slow them down (or blow them up)...

Those vendors came to mind. It could have been any reliable vendor. My point is there are lots of bits and pieces that didn't make your list that many feel constitute a solid build-up. Do you really need them? Well, you can get to the moon strapped to a JATO rocket if the baby's coming, I suppose?

I certainly agree that there are lots of guys who are barking up the wrong tree with their builds and tunes, but I don't think it helps to say it's cheap and easy. Following your logic, we'd all be running 11.0 on stuff we make in our basements, and Cotton and Red and Mike and Bruce and so on would be out of business cause no one needs anything. Hmmm, on the contrary, they all seem to be doing just fine?

strike

So your build is based on a car that ate it's own head gaskets and was never seen again? Hmmmmmm... Dubious strategy...

 

[VETKILR]

well said everyone, thanks a lot!

 

[NCTURBOS]

Strike, you're a trip... I'll have to buy you a drink at one of the Buick events. There aren't too many smarta$$es like myself out there anymore it seems. :biggrin:

I sure am glad I don't have to argue with you about my old burgundy '86 T-type that went 12.0's @ 113+ with a stock turbo, stock intercooler, 133k mile motor, stock D-5, stock tranny, etc., etc., etc...

Or my old gray car aka "SlowGray", that went 11.07 @ 123.75 mph with Amoco 93-octane, no alcohol.

Or my Harley that made 125Hp 2-weeks ago with just a 95" big bore kit, ported stock heads, gear drive cams, etc., etc...

Or my Cummins truck that will out-run TurboIndian's GMC Dura-slop...

Anyways, draw your own conclusions. It's 12:10am, I just got done fitting the bearings and installing a rotating assm. in a '109 block. I'm tired and I have to be back up in a few hours to go to work.


K.

 

[strikeeagle]

Strike, you're a trip... I'll have to buy you a drink at one of the Buick events. There aren't too many smarta$$es like myself out there anymore it seems. :biggrin:

I sure am glad I don't have to argue with you about my old burgundy '86 T-type that went 12.0's @ 113+ with a stock turbo, stock intercooler, 133k mile motor, stock D-5, stock tranny, etc., etc., etc...

Or my Harley that made 125Hp 2-weeks ago with just a 95" big bore kit, ported stock heads, gear drive cams, etc., etc...

Or my Cummins truck that will out-run TurboIndian's GMC Dura-slop...

Anyways, draw your own conclusions. It's 12:10am, I just got done fitting the bearings and installing a rotating assm. in a '109 block. I'm tired and I have to be back up in a few hours to go to work.


K.

Yeah, you're OK in my book too, NC. Thing is, I don't doubt what you say one bit. Neither do I think you doubt what I say one bit. It doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there, and you enjoy the journey.

I kinda lost interest in TRs when we got our 04 GTO, then our 06 TBSS (gotta love SBCs), but we put $2K in parts on my buddy's car (one of our old GNs, in fact) this summer, just my wife and me, and it's kinda got me going again. I kinda lost the bug for racing, but we had a ball putting his car right for mostly street duty.

Cheers.

strike

 

[VETKILR]

ttt

 

[DCVING 6]

I think I understand where strikeeagle is coming from. There is an awful lot of people out there who say/think that you can run 11's for $1500. There are a LOT of little things that add up really quick if you want to do it reliably.

There are also quite a few cars that have 11 second parts that run 13's... but that is a whole different subject.

 

[TurboDave]

<snip>


I kinda lost the bug for racing, but we had a ball putting his car right for mostly street duty.

Cheers.

strike

My feelings exactly. I'm all wore out on the racing, but still having fun putting some inovative stuff on the car and tuning it for great performance and streetability!! see sig.

 

[Turbo Indian]

Or my Cummins truck that will out-run TurboIndian's GMC Dura-slop...




K.

and to think I was going to come on here and give you a few ataboys, well count that one out!!! yes the wifes GN ran the #'s with the combo Keith posted, BUT if you recall when I stepped it up & added the cam, "Jannis" transmission, 55# inj, & a double pumper I ran 10.96 & backed it up with a 10.97. I then gave you 3 days of tuning @ the Nationals with "your" set up & you were unable to duplicate "my" success!!


NOW as for the trucks like I keep telling you mine is a work truck, go ahead & hook to 25,000#'s & drag it up over black mtn & tell me how your tranny likes it. slummins make a good engine the problem is it is wrapped around a dodge truck. why is it you see more powerjokes & Duramax's pulling hotshot trailers across this country? is it that all these guys don't know about the slummins or did they chose to purchase a truck that will get the job done?

on a serious note Keith does have a great ability to get a TR to run 11's on a budget.