Let the jury deliberate

[lyonsd]

Prosecution: (P) Ladies and gents of the jury, Deputy Casper (from now on referred to as DC) clocked the defendant (D) going 75mph in a 45mph zone. I now call DC to the stand...

Bailiff: Do you swear...

DC: I do.

P: DC, please tell the jury what you observed.

DC: I observed D in a 1987 GN pass another vehicle. When D got within range, I hit him with laser and clocked him going 75mph. The speed limit was 45 on that road. I pulled him over and issued him a citation.

P: Did D say anything to you?

DC: Yes. D said that he had just passed another car. I told him that he didn't need to be going that fast because there were no other cars. He then said that everybody speeds when they pass another car.

P: No further questions.

D: DC, didn't you say to D that the other car was going 50mph?

DC: Yes.

D: And how did you determine that?

DC: I clocked him with laser.

D: Was this before or after D had passed him?

DC: After.

D: And how fast was the other car going before D passed him?

DC: I don't know.

D: On the citation you issued to D, you marked the box for "moderate" traffic.

DC: That is correct.

D: But here you've testified that there were no other cars approaching when D made the pass.

DC: That is correct. At the time of the pass, the road was clear. But traffic was moderate overall.

D: What else can you tell the jury about the conditions, other than traffic level? For instance, wasn't the road downhill where D made the pass?

DC: Yes, it was dowmhill.

D: And what can you say about the performance of the car D was in - a 1987 GN?

DC: It is a high performance car.

D: Is it capable of reaching 75 mph in a pass?

DC: Probably. It would depend on the speed the pass was started at.

D: Would the speed be higher or lower than normal if the pass was made on a downhill slope?

DC: Higher.

D: When passing another vehicle, isn't reasonable, and expected for the passer to not look at the speedometer when he is in the oncoming traffic lane? And isn't it reasonable and expected to exceed the speed limit to safely get around the passee?

DC: Yes. But 75mph was excessive;.beyond reasonable.

D: At what point does it become "unreasonable? At what point does it become illegal?

DC: It is the officer's discretion. But we typically give 10mph over.

D: No further questions. I know call D to the stand.

I turned onto the highway going north and I got behind another vehicle. The speed limit was 45 and this vehicle was travelling 30-35mph. The vehicle continued at that speed for at least a half-mile, and when the road opened up, I initiated a pass. The car I passed sped up in the process, so I had no choice to get around as quickly as possible, because once you begin a pass you are committed to completing it. I did what I felt was necessary to pass the other vehicle safely, before more traffic came over the hill.

After I moved back into the right lane, I noticed my radar detector went off. I was already slowing down and it went off a second time. I saw DC about a quarter mile up ahead, and when I went by him he pulled out and stopped me. I told him that I had just passed another car and he acknowledged that fact and went back to his car to run my info and write a ticket.

P: What speed did you reach during the pass?

D: I was more worried about keeping my eyes on the road and the other car than not exceeding the speed limit, so I didn't look at the speedo.

P: No further questions.

[closing statements]

P: D initiated a pass where it was verified he reached speeds of at least 75mph in a 45mph zone. The road was clear and there was no reasonable means for him to go that fast. The other car was verified to have been going 50mph, so the pass itself was illegal.

D: The following facts have been brought out in this case:

• I initiated a pass of a car that was going between 30-35 for a half mile.
• When I initiated the pass, we were on a downhill section of road.
• traffic was moderate; it was clear at the time if the pass, but other cars could have been coming over the hill.
• My car is a high performance car.
• The other car sped up during the pass which was verified by DC's testimony that it was going 50mph.
• I did what I felt necessary to safely complete the pass before getting to the uphill section of the road.

 

[BandAid]

DHC (d!ckhead cops) in my area,pressume you are guilty and doing wrong because you are driving a mean looking black car

Black GN = 7 tickets,traffic school graduate
White T = 0 tickets
Blue T = 0 tickets
Grey T = 0 tickets

Let the facts speak for themselves

you are Guilty

 

[lyonsd]

Guilty as in exceeding the speed limit - sure.

But it's not illegal to pass a car that's going under the speed limit. And it's also practically impossible to not exceed the speed limit when passing, especially if the car you're passing is speeding up on you.

If I were on a jury, I would not vote to convict somebody for speeding if the reason they were speeding was to pass another car.

 

[JDSfastGN]

My dad got pulled over for passing once as well, he was on a road with a 55 mph speed limit and there was a jacked up truck and a car in front both doing about 35 mph, so he went around in his GN and when he got in front he sadly realized it was an unmarked police car holding up traffic. I remember him fighting that one to the end, but dont' remember the outcome

Oh and i voted not guilty

 

[TurboJunky]

You are responsible for violating the prima facie speed limit. The sign doesn't say "Speed Limit 45 (except when passing)".

Your car's performance, downhill grade, traffic conditions and the like are irrelevant.

Q - How fast were you going?
A - 75mph in a 45mph zone.

Q - Is that permitted?
A - No. (unless you can find the exception in the Vehicle Code)

GUILTY

 

[DCEPTCN]

Sorry, I agree with your argument and personally believe that it makes perfect sense.....BUT, it is illegal to exceed the speed limit even to pass. Laws are black and white.....logic and actual circumstances aren't always that cut and dry. I would let you off the hook, were it up to me- but the law says:

guilty

 

[TurboV6Sonoma]

OK what was the verdict? I hate suspense.

I drive down that way going to my buddies speed shop (atlanta speed shop) in gainesville. I take 985.

 

[SilverSleeper]

Guilty.
I am still dealing with a similar thing that happened more than 3 years ago. The small courts here are full of morons.

I was passing a truck uphill, doing 40 in a 55 zone. It was a breakout lane, but several cars were in line ahead of me to pass. By the time I got close, there wasnt a lot of room left before the lane disappeared. But I had already started accelerating. So I went to pass the truck and I managed to get up to almost 65 while passing him, unfortunately, in mid-pass, a cruiser was cresting the hill and clocked me...however, I saw him before I even hit 65, and I let off as soon as I saw him.
He wrote me a ticket for 72 in a 55.
Oh well, its often your word against the officer, and since youre obviously a menace to society, (otherwise you wouldnt be there) your word isnt worth a crap.

 

[lyonsd]

Yes, the Law does indeed say "guilty". But that's why we have juries, to deal with the extenuating circumstances such as those in this case. So when you answer the poll, don't answer it based on what the law says, answer it based on how you personally would vote if you were on a jury in this case.

For example, the law doesn't say that you can exceed the speed limit if you're rushing somebody to the hospital, but is it reasonable to get a ticket for that?

I just had an arraignment last week, where I plead not guilty and requested a jury trial. So as far as the outcome goes, you'll all have to hang in there for a while. I'll let you know eventually.

 

[TurboJunky]

You can have a jury trial on a speeding ticket???

I think what you're seeking is called "jury nullification" where a jury may believe you've broken the law but will still side with the defendant due to sympathy or out and out disagreement with the law itself.

No jury trials in Michigan since it's not a criminal offense to speed. Here it's a Civil Infraction and as such the rules change. That means "a preponderance of evidence" instead of "beyond a reasonable doubt" as required in a criminal proceeding. Civil Infractions also preclude the need for arraignments, attorneys, advice of rights and juries.

 

[dgreen1069]

Guilty....sorry it happened to ya bud, but 30 over is a bit high. In VA, you could be sited for reckless driving because you were going 20 mph over the posted speed limit. I'm not one to tout that everyone must obey the speed limit, but everyone knows that it's a gamble when you don't. You gambled this time and lost. In VA, RADAR and LIDAR are prima facia evidence of your speed.....meaning, whatever the machine says is almost indisputable.

 

[lyonsd]

Yes. In GA speeding is a misdemeanor and you can get a jury trial.

So 30 over is a bit high? OK then, at what point over the speed limit is too much? When you pass. should you look at the speedometer to make sure you don't go beyond that point? Or should you keep your eyes on the road ahead for oncoming traffic? And when you pass, do you just casually go around the other car at a leisure rate? Or do you go around him briskly in order to spend as little time in the opposite lane as possible?

Nobody is concerned with exceeding the speed limit when they pass. They're more concerned with not getting killed in the process. And to miminize the risk of getting killed, they must pass as quickly as possible.

I can't believe some people would vote to convict for passing. What is the world coming to?

 

[salvageV6]

30 over for passing IS excessive.

But having said that if they ever put ME on a jury trial for speeding, in a case similar to that, no way would anyone get convicted.

Your average law abiding old lady would burn ya however.

 

[scottyb]

Guilty because you willingly admitted to having a radar detector in the car. Where's the bitchslap smiley?

 

[$1987 GN$]

You did exceed the limit so under the law you did do wrong.

If I was on the Jury you would walk.


AJ

 

[lyonsd]

Originally posted by salvageV6
30 over for passing IS excessive.

Even when going downhill and the other car is speeding up while you're passing him?

At what point does it become excessive?

Originally posted by scottyb
Guilty because you willingly admitted to having a radar detector in the car. Where's the bitchslap smiley?

I have not been to trial and and I will not mention the radar detector unless I need to in case the cop says he clocked the other car before I passed him.

If he tries to say I passed a car going 50 mph in a 45 mph zone, that is a lie. The car was going less than 35mph and sped up to 50 in the time that I passed him.

Originally posted by $1987 GN$
You did exceed the limit so under the law you did do wrong.

If I was on the Jury you would walk.

Thanks for your support. However, I think I would have done wrong if I hadn't exceeded the speed limit and casually went aorund the other car, which as I pointed out sped up to 50. So had I not exceeded the speed limit, I wouldn't have been able to pass him at all.

 

[TurboJunky]

Originally posted by lyonsd
I can't believe some people would vote to convict for passing. What is the world coming to?

If you can find a legal exemption in your motor vehicle code that specifically states you may exceed the prima facia speed limit to complete a pass then do so. If you cannot find that exemption then you're guilty.

On a side note, Georgia needs to get into the 21st century and decriminalize speeding.

 

[85HOT-T]

30 MPH's may be high, but I'd do the same thing if some d!ick sped up in front of me. Plus it is way too easy to hit 75 in a TR.

 

[dgreen1069]

Don't get me wrong, although I think you are guilty, it still sucks. Nobody likes to get caught speeding. Almost everyone does it sometime, but everyone should be prepared for the possible consequences when they do. You gambled and lost....it's as simple as that. It's like putting your hand in hot water then getting pissed off because you got burned......it was bound to happen sooner or later.

 

[salvageV6]

If somebody is speeding up when passing and you are 30 over the limit approaching 70-75 mph it's time to hit the brakes and get back in line and wait for a stop light.

After getting a nice 0-60 head start on the loser you then slow down to the speed limit or just under it and make them suffer for several miles.

Safety first then get revenge.