Lifters and Al. rods

[TurboDave]

I'm a little bored today, and the board's quiet so thought this to be a good time to increase the knowledge base for my upcoming buildup.

Question:

How difficult is it to find aluminum rods for the SII?
Recommended brand/size.
Are they even practical for such a build?

Also need recommendations on roller lifters.
Specific brands/part numbers would be a huge help.

Thanks!

 

[lazaris]

Dave,

We use aluminum rods in our 427 BB race motor that spins at 8700rpm. They come out after every 300-400 passesand are replaced . They will have to replaced often and arent practical for anything but an all out race motor IMO.

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by lazaris
Dave,

We use aluminum rods in our 427 BB race motor that spins at 8700rpm. They come out after every 300-400 passesand are replaced . They will have to replaced often and arent practical for anything but an all out race motor IMO.

Pretty much like Titanium rods, right?

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by TurboDave

How difficult is it to find aluminum rods for the SII?
Are they even practical for such a build?

Depends on how often and how high you spin the motor.
Also, what sort of piston to head clearances you like.

AL rods stretch a fair bit more then their steel counterparts. While you might only have .004-.006 stretch with a Steel rod with ALs you can just about double that. This is old stuff from when we were running Carrillos vs I believe they were Howards. For some automotive stuff. In the Yosimura bike stuff the stretch was porportionally less. On some of the bikes they just went forever, but the auto stuff was never wrung out that well, where I was.

I'd wonder what the life would be of them with some of the new ultra-cold treatments.

 

[broke1]

Originally posted by 86brick
Pretty much like Titanium rods, right?

The only thing that makes titanium rods best suited for an all out racing engine is COST,not strength.Titanium doesnt "stretch" like aluminum and shouldnt have to be pulled out after x amount of runs.

 

[odell4o8]

alum rods.

dave, i took four sets of off center alum, rods to the nats, and bristol couldnt give them away, i think i have three sets somewhere in the garage, cheap if you want them,

 

[Cheeseburger]

Re: alum rods.

Originally posted by odell4o8
dave, i took four sets of off center alum, rods to the nats, and bristol couldnt give them away, i think i have three sets somewhere in the garage, cheap if you want them,

Maybe you can make butt plugs out of them????

 

[broke1]

Re: Re: alum rods.

Originally posted by Cheeseburger
Maybe you can make butt plugs out of them????

I kind of figured nothing smarter would come out of your mouth. You need to take your head out of your ass before you can get some alum rods up there.

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by broke1
The only thing that makes titanium rods best suited for an all out racing engine is COST,not strength.Titanium doesnt "stretch" like aluminum and shouldnt have to be pulled out after x amount of runs.

I've heard from some people that they do have to be pulled after a certain # of runs and others say like you that they don't.... One guy down here uses them in his high HP Toyota 4cylinder motor and he claims they are the best of both worlds (the weight of an aluminum rod and the longevity of a forged steel rod)....

BTW, who makes Titanium rods and/or aluminum rods for our motors? Crower?

 

[broke1]

I have no idea on manufacturers but figure roughly 2x the cost of a standard forged rod.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

Re: alum rods.

Originally posted by odell4o8
i think i have three sets somewhere in the garage, cheap if you want them,

are they stock lenth , wristpin etc?

 

[Cheeseburger]

Re: Re: alum rods.

Originally posted by Cheeseburger
Maybe you can make butt plugs out of them????

All in good fun........no disrespect Odell!
I have titanium rods and steel rods and as far as i am concerned the major benefit is weight.......PERIOD!
As far as Aluminium rods go,i would talk to someone that actually has experience running them on a blower motor.

I do not understand how some of these thoughts come up about titanium rods
"the only thing that makes titanium rods best suited for all out racing engine is cost,not strength"????????? Very bizarre!




Brick, Crower can make you a set for $2700 approx.

 

[broke1]

Whats so bizzare about my claim??? Id run titanium rods in every engine if not for the cost.Hell even the daily driver would have em. Just not practical IMO.

$2700 you say??? None for me,thank you.

I dont think theyd be that much but ive never really priced em.Id think $2k tops.

And I know you Stage guys could care less about the cost.

Ill just sit here and be jealous of you and your rods that cost as much as my short block

 

[86brick]

Re: Re: Re: alum rods.

Originally posted by Cheeseburger

Brick, Crower can make you a set for $2700 approx.

Thanks for the info.... $2700 is not as bad as I thought they would be (I figured $3000-$3500).... In any event those rods are definitely not in my near future (unless I win the lottorey or knock off a bank), but if or should I say when I build a Stage motor (one of these years) I would probably consider them because I believe that less rotating mass is a very good thing

 

[HighPSI]

Cunningham also makes titanium rods. They will cost you over $3000/set. I have heard "rumors" of the titanium rods being hard on bearings. Although, I don't have any first hand knowledge.
As for the aluminum rods, I imagine it would be pretty hard to use them in anything but a short stroke motor. Clearancing for a 3.625 seems like it would seem pretty difficult.

 

[TurboDave]

Re: alum rods.

Originally posted by odell4o8
dave, i took four sets of off center alum, rods to the nats, and bristol couldnt give them away, i think i have three sets somewhere in the garage, cheap if you want them,

Rats! My blocks are on center.

I think Cal made a good point. I plan on running as much stroke as I can cramb in there (3.625), so the bigger, meatier aluminum would probably cause some difficulties. Since everything else on these motors will be aluminum (except the reciprocating parts), I was just looking to save as much weight as possible, and something easier/quicker to "spin up". Titanium is obviously out of the question (budget).

Any specifice roller lifter recommendations?

 

[odell4o8]

alum, rods

cal is right,, i took these rods out of old stage 2 n/a engines with 3.100 and 3.00 stroke, i dont think you could use them with any longer stroke, and cheeseburger im used to wise cracks in my 64 years i have been around a lot, so no problem,

 

[lazaris]

Dave,

My engine builder has great success with the crower lifters that incorporate high pressure pin oiling. They add pressure fed oiling to the needle bearings improving durabilty. The also use larger sized bearings in their rollers.

 

[postal]

Hmmm... Did I make another wrong assumption? I have a roller cam kit for a stock block. I thought as long as a ran stock style heads that I had the right stuff. Am I going to have to get a different set of lifters?

Thanks: Jason

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by postal
Hmmm... Did I make another wrong assumption? I have a roller cam kit for a stock block. I thought as long as a ran stock style heads that I had the right stuff. Am I going to have to get a different set of lifters?

Thanks: Jason

I don't think you're assuming wrong. As far as I know, all stage blocks have the same .842 lifter bores (SBC size), and nothing gets too special unless solids are in the works (my assumptions).

It's just that I see small block chevy lifters with "vertical" lock bars, and those with "horizontal" lock bars, and some with offsets and some without offsets. Just don't know any particulars on what fits and what doesn't.