looking to run mid to low 12s. where to start?

[tmaxxfreak88]

hi, i have an 85 t type and would like to eventually get well into the 12s with it its mostly stock with a hotwired walbro pump and an unopened stock engine. where should i start? what parts should i look into buying. this is my first tr and i want to have some fun with it.
Thanks, Marc

 

[SouthernCal GN]

Injectors, TT chip, alky, turn up the boost, sticky tires.

Go get um!

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

I actually have achieved your goals but it is not cheap. Read my signature and be prepared to open your wallet to the tune of $6000 in parts. Slapping a few parts on will never get you into the twelves. You have to open up the entire engine from intake through exhaust. Speed is like drugs-you always want more. My only point is you might be better off spending your money on an 86/87 which has alot more potential than a Hot Air. Think before you ever spend. My 2 cents. Brad

 

[tmaxxfreak88]

yeah thats really what i wanted but i got this cheap did some work and it runs great now i just dont think i would get enough money out of mine ot purchase an 86-87

 

[boostmaster]

I actually have achieved your goals but it is not cheap. Read my signature and be prepared to open your wallet to the tune of $6000 in parts. Slapping a few parts on will never get you into the twelves. You have to open up the entire engine from intake through exhaust. Speed is like drugs-you always want more. My only point is you might be better off spending your money on an 86/87 which has alot more potential than a Hot Air. Think before you ever spend. My 2 cents. Brad

Not exactly..... Here's what it took me to get into the 12's consistantly. Consistanly is the operative word here cause it can be done in pure stock trim with "expert" tuning and race fuel.
Stock block and cam
Passenger side header (used) 200.00
Bigger turbo TA33 850.00
2 1/2 Downpipe 140.00
42lb injectors (used) 200.00
Custom chip 75.00
Upgraded fuel pump & Hot wire kit 139.00
Sticky tires 350.00
Total= 1954.00 This supplying my own labor.
With a good 60ft 1.80 or better 101 mph will get you into the 12's all day.
104 mph will get you there with a 2.0 60ft or better.

Now to consistanly run mid to low 12's to high 11's still in hot air trim.
Add a larger turbo, the bigger the better, probably something custom. 800.00
50lb injectors or larger (used) 250.00
Bigger cam (not needed but makes it easier) 125.00
New lifters for cam 60.00
DIY alky kit 200.00 or less
Ported heads 850.00-900.00
Razors alky kit 450.00
Another custom chip 75.00
Custom converter 500.00
Total 5054.00

Sell your used stuff
Ta33 650.00
42lb injectors and matching chip 200.00
Total 850.00
5054.00-850.00= 4204.00
Might throw in 500.00 for a couple of odds and ends.

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Boostmaster-Like I said-$6000 You forgot that nobody makes a Turbo bigger than a TA 33C, and nobody makes a 2 1/2 inch downpipe. The integrated (eliminates the dreaded 2 inch turbo elbo)2 1/2 inch downpipe costs $850 custom built. With my math you cannot upgrade the turbo for $150. A larger turbo has to be reclocked and custom made and welded. Way too expensive. My 2 cents. Brad

 

[boostmaster]

Boostmaster-Like I said-$6000 You forgot that nobody makes a Turbo bigger than a TA 33C, and nobody makes a 2 1/2 inch downpipe. The integrated (eliminates the dreaded 2 inch turbo elbo)2 1/2 inch downpipe costs $850 custom built. With my math you cannot upgrade the turbo for $150. A larger turbo has to be reclocked and custom made and welded. Way too expensive. My 2 cents. Brad

The first part of my post was way less than 6000.00 Also the post was just to make it to the 12's and I proved that for roughly 3000.00 it can and has been done. You don't need any bigger than a TA33 it will take you to bottom 12's. As far as the down pipe pleanty of used downpipes floating around for less than 200.00. Yes most of them still use the stock elbow but that restriction won't be a factor. As far as turbo's there are plenty of stock appearing used 86-87 turbo's sold on this board all the time much cheaper than 600.00 a little fabricating and you have a big turbo for cheap. Also the examples I presented was for someone who started with a basic set up and wanted to upgrade. You could always go straight to the killer set up fom the begining and save about 2000.00

 

[alec296]

my suggestion is to get adjustable wastegate and fuel pressure regulator
a scan tool, upgrade exhaust with 87 kit and try to get a downpipes/header upgrades
learn tuning from there which without that the changes you do wont work as good as they should.
stuff that you will need anyways
start from there while looking for the other parts listed
you can get into the 13s with stock turbo with the right parts
if you come across a torque convertor,injectors or other parts while doing this then go for it
if motor is got a lot of miles you might want to throw in a timing chain too
get a v8 radiator and shroud, f body or fwd radiator(park ave/bonniville)
maybe electric fans
stuff you can get from junk yard
andy

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Alec- you are local so if you need any help send me an email. Modifying cheaply costs you in the long run alot more money. I look at this issue from a CPA point of view. Been there done it . My 2 cents-Brad

 

[Boost231]

get a 4.1 block stroke it to a 4.5 bolt your factory stuff on it plus the usual pump wastegate reg. bla bla bla and you got your 12's

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Brent- Great answer but your answer will cost $6000 in end just as my answer. The only isssue is that getting a Hot AIR into the twelves is expensive and most people do not do it. There are a few of us left who forgot their wallet and went to the wall. I have actually have hit the limits of my setup and really need to put up some real quarter numbers. I have no excuse but my 2 sons baseball season prior to going to the track. I am actually to the point where I am playing with the fueling on the TT chip. My 2 cents. Brad

 

[Boost231]

im in the 12's and you dont want to know the list of reciepts i have to get there. hell i should be in the 11's now with my ported heads and new bottom end.

 

[boostmaster]

12's

Man I don't know what you guys are talking about, 6000.00. I don't have 6 g's in parts in my 84 & 85 together. And they both are 12 second capable. One thing for sure, when it's all said and done it will still be cheaper to get a better condition hot air and mod it than a ragged out 86-87 and mod it . Some of you guys spend too much money and not enough testing then when your not fast enough you spend more money. Still not fast more money and on and on and on. Only spend the dough on what works. Everthing else is just throwing money in the pit.

 

[Boost231]

ok so what works and what doesnt? can you list some stuff that doesnt work and can you list some stuff that does? also if you want 12's its as easy as 400 bucks. put NOS on it.

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Brent- I agree with you. Funny how there is no signature with mods. A stock hot air is a 15.0 quarter car. An 87 is a 14.3. There is no way you can get into the twelves for less the $6,000 safely. My 2 cents. Brad

 

[boostmaster]

Brent- I agree with you. Funny how there is no signature with mods. A stock hot air is a 15.0 quarter car. An 87 is a 14.3. There is no way you can get into the twelves for less the $6,000 safely. My 2 cents. Brad

A sig don't run the quarter, wanna know what my sig is less modds with less money than you and faster. He... He!!!:smile: Anyway since you insist I will run down exactly What it took for me to go 12's on a less than 6000.00 budget.

First: stock block Freshended.
Crane cam off ebay (new) 50.00
Atr Header Passenger side ebay (used) 175.00
Lee Thompson Downpipe (new) ebay 175.00
External wastegate (new) ebay 60.00
57lb injectors with 93 & 106 chips (used) from this board 225.00
Fuel pump & hotwire kit (new) 139.00
Adjustable fuel pressure regulator (new) 119.00
Ported Heads (used ) From this board 550.00
TA62 Turbo (new) from this board 750.00
Protorque 3200 stall converter (used) 400.00

Total 2643.00

Now the rest of the story, it's no big secret that everything that works for the 86-87 works for the 84-85, with one exception the hot air with its poorer flowing induction system needs ported heads and a bigggg turbo. I went from running 13.3-4's with street tires @ 24-26psi. Put on the ported heads with no other changes and instantly started running 13.0's @ 18 psi all the time. And this was with a small TA49. Put on the 62 and woahhhh nelly. It can be done without ported heads but it will require lotsa boost and timeing. A good 60ft time and at least 103 mph in the quarter.

 

[Boost231]

just figured i would ask but how are you running a Ta-62 on a stock intake? how did u mod the turbo to fit in the stock location using the stock hotair intake? i know i could have gone 11's with a complete stock bottom but i lifted a head before i got there.

 

[boostmaster]

just figured i would ask but how are you running a Ta-62 on a stock intake? how did u mod the turbo to fit in the stock location using the stock hotair intake? i know i could have gone 11's with a complete stock bottom but i lifted a head before i got there.

Brent, You already know the answer to that question. And no you would have gone 11's with the stock bottom if you had ported heads. Less boost more air more power.

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Bootmaster-Parts look impressive on the front end but alot do not exist. The real issue with your response is the lack of any real scanmaster reading. The Buick 3.8 Turbo engine is basically 99 % computer controlled. No numbers on IAC, TPS, BLM.... I ask that you post numbers or be quiet. Brad

 

[boostmaster]

Bootmaster-Parts look impressive on the front end but alot do not exist. The real issue with your response is the lack of any real scanmaster reading. The Buick 3.8 Turbo engine is basically 99 % computer controlled. No numbers on IAC, TPS, BLM.... I ask that you post numbers or be quiet. Brad

Brad to be quite honest with you I do not have that data as Boost231 may be a witness to this things go by pretty quick when your moving 12.xx or faster. I do not have scanmaster or direct scan so I can't record the run. All I have is an OTC4000 and a Caspers knock gauge. All I can concentrate on when running is O2's and Knock. My car likes a lot of timimg and O2's in the .820-.830 range, which is a slightly higher reading on other scan tools. I tune for 0 knock or less than the 3rd green light on caspers knock gauge. I also have the Translater Gen 3 and a ls1 maf which helps with the fueling since I can easily peg the stock maf. So sorry I can't supply that data for you. Any way each car is different and what my car likes yours may not. You have to take the time to find out.