Loosing all my Alky when cars parked??

[Alaskabuick]

Ok this is kind of a mystery, but my tank seems to be empty when I get in the car after sitting for awhile?

Lucky I noticed the low alky light right when I was bout to hammer it to 23 pounds. At first I thought I had just ran low, but now again I got in the car an tank was dry.

Anyone else have this happen? Has to be one of the fittings on the line from the tank to the pump? I dont see any signs or drips on the floor? Could my alky be running while just cruzing? This is strange.

Thought I would post here first before diving into it.

This is a progressive Alky system, love it! But need to find the source of leak.

Den

 

[WiskeyJack]

leak?

Is it a leak or did you put your nozzle below tank level and its draining into the intercooler? If in fact it is leaking you won't see a wet spot as it evaporates almost instantly.

 

[tommynos]

Ok this is kind of a mystery, but my tank seems to be empty when I get in the car after sitting for awhile?

Lucky I noticed the low alky light right when I was bout to hammer it to 23 pounds. At first I thought I had just ran low, but now again I got in the car an tank was dry.

Anyone else have this happen? Has to be one of the fittings on the line from the tank to the pump? I dont see any signs or drips on the floor? Could my alky be running while just cruzing? This is strange.

Thought I would post here first before diving into it.

This is a progressive Alky system, love it! But need to find the source of leak.

Den

its funny is see this as i just had the same problem and it left me a trail,luckily,on my bottom black 3 piece spoiler(it turned white-ish)...turned out the bottom of the pump has a few screws in which one was extremely loose,after a few turns the seal closed and no more drips....

 

[Alaskabuick]

Thanks guys, Ill check both issues.. make sense!

 

[Alaskabuick]

leak

Ok, got some time to investegate today. Looks like it is leaking from the top of the Pump. Did not have time to pull it down, but that is where it is definatly coming from.

Is their some type of seal or o-ring that may go bad? maybe just loose srcews from the pump/motor interface.

Dennis

 

[jsta6]

 

[WSLN 6]

Mine evaporates while parked as well, straight methanol. I thinnk the vented tank lid would be to blame. Cover the vent and fill the tank and see what happens.

 

[Pablo]

Ok, got some time to investegate today. Looks like it is leaking from the top of the Pump. Did not have time to pull it down, but that is where it is definatly coming from.

Is their some type of seal or o-ring that may go bad? maybe just loose srcews from the pump/motor interface.

Dennis

I've seen them leak from both the pressure switch mounting interface and the pump head to pump body seal. I've seen them leak from the pressure switch multiple times and the pump head once.

I ended up epoxying the pressure switch to the pump head for that problem. The other issue I solved (at least so far) by sealing the pump to the body with the Right Stuff

 

[jsta6]

its funny is see this as i just had the same problem and it left me a trail,luckily,on my bottom black 3 piece spoiler(it turned white-ish)...turned out the bottom of the pump has a few screws in which one was extremely loose,after a few turns the seal closed and no more drips....

hoping this is my problem. screws weren't really loose, but could be tightened. I tightened them up and will continue to monitor...

I may try to seal it better...

 

[Razor]

There are two seals inside the pump made out of santoprene. One is the checkvalve seal, the other is the diaphram. The check valve seal goes underneath the switch assembly.

What happens is if you get a bad batch of contaminated alcohol.. like gasoline/oil mixed with it.. the santoprene reacts by shrinking. When it shrinks, it then no longer seals. There is a checkvalve seal kit from shurflo part number 94-374-09 which includes the checkvalve seal.

Now here is the issue, if the check valve seal shrunk, then the diaphram made out of the same material also has been hurt. What happens next is you get a leak under pressure from the head to plastic upper housing. The temporary fix is to mill down the head to increase the clamping, but the pump will be down in pressure by 20% once this part reacts. And like cancer, it will leak within months.

Now the bad news is the diaphram is not replaceable as a part. And its more expensive than buying a new pump.

So when you have a leaking pump under the switch, first measure is to replace the check valve.. if it has further leaks, replace the pump. 90% of the time once a leak happens..its a downward spiral.

Every single pump I have seen leak with less than 1 years use has always smelled like gasoline inside. 3-4 years is normal expectancy. Some get longer time, and those using denatured its questionable as to how long they get.

All pumps made by all MFG's used with injection have santoprene as the material used. It is the elastomer used.

So if you have a leaking pump, its more than a few years old.. time for new one.. and you wont have to mess with it for years. Any bandaids done, dont last or allow the pump to build pressure correctly.

We will at no charge inspect pumps, replace seals and see if that corrects it. If it doesnt, then you will have that prognosis.

Lastly, if the car is heavily dependant on the methanol system.. you may want to consider repairs to a hurt pump. On a non-critical setup it doesnt matter. On a higher boost application, I wouldnt risk it.

Get a pressure guage and test your setup.. we have the testers available or make your own.

HTH

 

[Razor]

hoping this is my problem. screws weren't really loose, but could be tightened. I tightened them up and will continue to monitor...

I may try to seal it better...

Tommy ended up buying a new pump after the repaired one failed on him.

FWIW

 

[Roc87]

Razor, pm sent regarding my leaking pump, sent before I read this post... I believe it's over 4 years old:frown: bought before you put the pressure switch on them, and I had sent it in for testing before and you added the pressure switch (maybe its 5 years??) guess it's that time

 

[Way2QWK]

Mine also started to leak from the pump head. was about 6 years old. Razor advise was a new pump with the updated pressure module. New pump is in now and way more powerful than the old one. Glad I listened to him and got a new pump instead of trying to bandaid the old one

 

[1985GN]

same thing happened to me pump was a good 6+ years old and leaked from the top. ordered a new one from razor and actually had to rtune the car as it ran richer, lol. that old pump was wearing down

 

[murphster]

My pump, maybe two years old, starting leaking around the head a couple months ago. Tried shaving down the head and reattatching but it still leaked. Finally just put right stuff on the head and around the pressure switch and let it sit for a couple days. Hasn't leaded since (about a month ago) and works fine.

 

[Razor]

My pump, maybe two years old, starting leaking around the head a couple months ago. Tried shaving down the head and reattatching but it still leaked. Finally just put right stuff on the head and around the pressure switch and let it sit for a couple days. Hasn't leaded since (about a month ago) and works fine.

There are two seals in the pump that can loose their ability to seal the liquid. One is the check valve seal, the other is the diaphram. If the seals reacted with a chemical in the alcohol they will shrink. Once they shrink, they no longer hold the liquid and the pump leaks. Examples of contamination are fuel and oil that may have gotten into the alcohol. Through containers, handling, pumps, etc.

Now.. if the seals shrink the material(santoprene) hardens. Once this happens the pump no longer puts out pressure properly, and like a cancer, will continue to deteriorate. Doing things like sanding the head, using RTV can stop the leak, but that pump does not put out pressure like it did when it was new. On some applications where a lot of alcohol is not needed thats not to detrimental, like a stock turbo car running 20 PSI boost. But on a 12.0 or faster car.. it becomes iffy. let alone the cost to repair the pump is not excessive.

There are diaphram and check valves available from Shurflo as parts. The parts are getting tough to get currently, but to rebuild the upper section of the pump cost is 80-85 vs buying a new pump. If you run a pressure test on the pump, you'll see the pressure output is down. The lower that pressure, the less that pump puts out.

Years ago we would get a pump in, sand the head.. change the seal.. check for leaks.. send it on its way. Those pumps would last 6-12 months before the issue resurfaced. This is why I called it a cancer. Best solution if the motor in the pump is not hurt.. change all the santoprene parts in the head.. and the pump performs like a brand new pump.

Recently I had a pump sent in that was from 2003.. changed all the upper parts.. away it goes. Just like new. Motors are rated at 1500 hours. As long as water hasnt gotten into them.

Hope this helps.

 

[murphster]

I hear what you're saying, but my pump is only 2 or so years old. I've only put methanol in the same container since new and buy it from the track. I can't really imagine where any contamination has gotten to it. Another of my pumps is twice as old and doesn't leak, filled from the same container and methanol from the same source.

$80-85 seems costly just to replace the two santoprene parts. And then having to pay shipping if we want to send it to you and make sure nothing else is wrong with it. I can see why people just buy a new pump.

I guess we need someone to get one of your pressure testers around here. Or maybe I'll donate one to Miller Buick Performance (Paul).

.....Are you sure you're not just using santoprene so you can sell more pumps and pressure tester kits? just kidding

Oh yeah, even my stock turbo car runs faster than 12.0 so I guess I shouldn't use my DIY fixed pump on any of my cars. Heh. Its on the clone right now. I log every run and will keep an eye out for any symptoms of reduced output from the pump.

Thanks for the heads up.