more help, and tranny ID

[BluEyes]

okay, searched and turned up nothing, so here goes...

I found the serial number on the trans. Goes 222-2T82AA1091

On the drivers side of the bellhousing, there is 8634005
The governer cover reads 8630569

What does this tell me about the tranny - it's supposed to have come from an '82 Caddy...

also, the wiring harness on the drivers side (converter lockup, right?) is a 4-pin connector, but there's only three wires, like this:

A B
pink? Green

Orange blank
D C

I'm assuming green is 12V+, maybe ground is through the case itself?

 

[HOTTOGO]

Yep!

'82 Caddy.
http://members.aol.com/powerrslid/thm2004r.html

 

[Clay Thompson]

Lockup

You must have the polarity correct + to + or you will burn out a diode in the TCC (lockup solenoid). Take the pan off and follow the wires from the valve in the front back to the connector to make sure you have it right. I run the ground back through the connector on the side and just bypass all the electrical stuff in the trannie and just ground it externally. Change filter while you are in there.

The trannie you have will be OK for driving but it is not a performance 200 4R.

This thread http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31365 and searching the site will teach you what you need to know.

Consider getting an ATSG manual for the 2004R is you plan to do much more than change the oil. I believe Bruce has them http://www.2004rperformancecenter.com/

 

[BluEyes]

Clay, since I got a D5 converter with the tranny, I figure I might do a little rebuild while I'm in there with the money saved by not having to buy a new converter... I'll definately look into the wiring, because I'd like to run lockup on the highway and save some heat.

HOTTOGO - thanks for that link (and all the other links on that page!) Would you happen to know what the ECS they referr to on the Caddy trannys was?

Am I right that the big difference between a 9AA tranny and a performance one is in the valve body? If I put a shift kit in there, will that bring my tranny up to spec?
Of course, I've also read the strengthening article a few times, and have a decent list of beefed-up parts to buy.

Oh, one more thing - there is a funny yellow tube coming out of the top of the tranny right behind the bellhousing. It's about the same size as those milk straws back in school. Anyone have an idea what this is?

 

[HOTTOGO]

ECS? just a guess would be electronic control system but I really don't know for suer. The tube is just a case vent. You are correct about the VB being the only major differance and a shift kit will help but it will not be as good as a performance one, and they can be calibrated to be equal but you'll be hard pressed to find out the exact way to do it on here. TCI and PTS both sell VB's pre calibrated.

 

[BluEyes]

well, at least the 9AA is w/o the ECS - might make it easier fitting it in my Camaro ('77).

I was afraid that there was more to the VB differences than just a shift kit would change, but I'll probably be doing most of my shifting manually when I hit the gas, so that ought to make it easier...

On the topic of TCI - how good are their rebuild kits? It seems their "pro-super" kit comes with a kevlar band, which I've heard isn't the best... Other than that, are the clutches, seals, etc good quality? The tranny is supposed to be good, and stock, so I was thinking of adding some hi-po parts before running it...

 

[HOTTOGO]

I think there is more to the VB's perofrmance then just shift points, but I did run a plain jane OG in my Monte SS with just a shift kit for a couple years before I found out what it was and it did pretty good. I had the TCI rebuild kit I believe the Master (the most complete) which ever one it is of the two, I basically ended only using the Blue dirct plates, steels, gaskets and seals, pr spring and shift kit the rest of the clutches are B/W stock and I wanted to use Alto reds, but nothing wrong with their kit at all. Except maybe the band and I also used Alto's red wide one.

 

[Clay Thompson]

ECS

Some trannie vavle bodys come with an extra set to valves in the lockup circuit--not BRs in GNs or CZs in Montes. I think those others use some sort of electronic control circuit, again not highest performance but I've got one in my car now and other than a lazy lockup its OK.

 

[BluEyes]

clutches and stuff

Originally posted by HOTTOGO
I basically ended only using the Blue dirct plates, steels, gaskets and seals, pr spring and shift kit the rest of the clutches are B/W stock and I wanted to use Alto reds, but nothing wrong with their kit at all. Except maybe the band and I also used Alto's red wide one.

I had a feeling that would be the case...
So, is blue better for the direct clutches, or Alto red eagle there as well?

also, take a look here: http://www.bulkparts.com/MM013.ASP?pageno=658
Under the 200-R4 clutches, they offer the Borg/Warner clutches, and "Allomatic friction" clutches. Are allomatic clutches like the alto reds?

Also, where can I find a listing of how many friction and steel clutches to put where? Every different builder seems to have their own opinion of how many - is more always better, or would it just transferr more stress to other parts of the tranny (parts that are more expensive to replace!)

Lastly, how hard is it to do a rebuild/freshening up (the tranny is supposed to be OK as is) for someone who has never seen the inside of a tranny except to drain the tranny fluid?

 

[HOTTOGO]

Blue plates are supposed better for strip (only needed for direct), either are fine just a matter of oppinion. Stock count in all clutch packs is just fine, OD should get 3 instead of 2 but requies piston to be milled. Bulk parts offers an Alto red eagle banner kit w/steals, good cheap kit and along with wide red band is all you need to freshen up clutches and seals, providing that is all your gonna need which is questionable. And if you have never done a trans before this is probably not the best one to try and learn on, but who am I to say.

PS. try getting a ATSG manual and read thru it first then decide if you are ready to take it on.

 

[BluEyes]

Originally posted by HOTTOGO
And if you have never done a trans before this is probably not the best one to try and learn on, but who am I to say.

So, I take it that your first tranny was a 200-R4??? I'll *definately* get the manual first. After that, I'll probably just try and dive in - heck, it's only money, right? The tranny is for my second car anyways...

I was actually thinking at work today to get the TCI kit, figuring it'd be more complete than the bulkparts red eagle kit. In addition to the parts listed on the bulkparts page, TCI also lists bushings and a new filter for their kits.
I guess I should probably just open up the tranny (with assistance from the manual), see what needs done, and then buy the kit+any other parts...

Oh, and I was also thinking of getting a hardened pump stator, wide alto band, larger TV boost valve, and a TCI trans scat shift kit... Sound solid enough? I know it's not the entire list from the strengthening article, but I'm also going to be under 400hp for now, under 500hp for a good time longer...

 

[WE4]

I see this getting ugly fast, down the road..... LOL

Bruce
WE4

 

[HOTTOGO]

Originally posted by BluEyes


So, I take it that your first tranny was a 200-R4??? I'll *definately* get the manual first. After that, I'll probably just try and dive in - heck, it's only money, right? The tranny is for my second car anyways...

I was actually thinking at work today to get the TCI kit, figuring it'd be more complete than the bulkparts red eagle kit. In addition to the parts listed on the bulkparts page, TCI also lists bushings and a new filter for their kits.
I guess I should probably just open up the tranny (with assistance from the manual), see what needs done, and then buy the kit+any other parts...

Oh, and I was also thinking of getting a hardened pump stator, wide alto band, larger TV boost valve, and a TCI trans scat shift kit... Sound solid enough? I know it's not the entire list from the strengthening article, but I'm also going to be under 400hp for now, under 500hp for a good time longer...

No this wan't my first trannie, just my first 2004r. Nothing wrong with the TCI kit and actually their Super Pro kit comes with the tran scat kit, they now are useing the red plates instead of the blues which they only include the directs, the rest are borg warner and bushings are only front and rear.

I had 2 spare trannies for parts and as guides when I redone mine along with the ATSG, GM manual and a video. All of what you say you want to do sounds good, except it will take more than just parts to do a rebuild there is a fair amount of special tools that will be needed and will add to the cost not mention were to get them from. And second you are starting a project with a wrong core unless you are thinking about a VB replacement which will add about $300-600 more to get one that is calibrated to performance specs.

I see this getting ugly fast, down the road..... LOL
Bruce
WE4

You might want to consider Bruce's warning and do some more thinking and research before making a decision. What you are about to attempt is what usually gives people a bad taste for these trannies. They spend a couple hundred heck even a couple grand at times on a rebuild even from so called pro's and they still have what they think is a piece of crap, then they want to blame it on the trans and not the builder or parts. Ask Bruce how many times he's seen this? If it only money as you say then I think your money can be better spent doing it right the first time with either the right core or using the one you have for a core deposit return and buy one, I bet you'd be more happy, and money ahead in the end. Just my opinion and like I said who am I?

 

[Clay Thompson]

Only money?

If it's only money be smart and buy the real thing from PTS or one of the trannie builders that use the PTS parts.

It's not just monet--its money, lots of time and many ATF shampoos if you do it yourself.