More TC questions for a trans newbie.

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Ok guys, break it down for me. I hear all the benefits of certain types of torque converters, and don't know which is right for me.

As you can see by my signature, I'm a typical street racer. I'm not a trap speed, track kind of guy. It's either cruising woodward, or running the 1/8th mile.

Here's what I know. Looser converters spool turbos faster, but they A. suffer higher heat, and B. hurt top end and/or cruising, well...cuz they're loose.

The smaller the converter the lighter. The less rotational mass, the quicker the engine gets up and goes.

TC's with a switch allow you to (i think, im not sure) either leave it alone, and let it do its thing, or lock it when you want to.

So, with this in mind, what do I want? My requests are quick spool, but I don't want to hurt any top end at all, while driving on the freeway.
So, from what I know, do I want a 10 inch, 2400 rpm lockup, so that she's tight on the top end, light enough to spool quick (I can rely on a free flowing exhaust and mbc for spool up) and wire it for manual lock so I can run with it unlocked during racing? What's the advantages of running a non lock while racing?

I know this is going to take some explaining, so bear with me. I gotta know this stuff. Thanks in advance for the help, as I know this is a hard subject.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

What turbo are you running?

Weight has almost nothing to do with spooling. It's a balancing act to get enough rpm to spool the turbo yet be efficient in your power and rpm range.

 

[conn84gn]

If I read it right ported Stock turbo and elbow?
Elbow ported or turbo?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

And is correct. Both the stock turbo and elbow are ported. Will have a 3" dp on there when the time comes.

And rotational weight has nothing to do with spooling?

 

[Dusty Bradford]

And is correct. Both the stock turbo and elbow are ported. Will have a 3" dp on there when the time comes.

And rotational weight has nothing to do with spooling?

Rotational weight has very little to do with spooling. A smaller converter like a 9" can help the motor accelerate a little better which can help the engine recover after the gear change. However, spooling on the footbrake has very little to do with weight. Spool time comes down to what's inside the converter. You do have to balance how easy it spools vs top end efficiency. Our converters are turbo converters meaning they leave the shop and are as loose down low and as tight up top as possible already. I do have some extra adjustments I can make to the pump and or stator depending on the turbo used.

You've done your homework. A 2400 10" l/u is where you need to be. Don't worry about the l/u switch. L/U is handled by the settings in your chip. If you want a WOT lock-up you will need a converter designed for that such as the 5 disc vigilante or the 9x11. For WOT lock-up you can use a switch or have your chip modified so it will lock automatically at a given mph. Our PTC converter is not designed for WOT lock-up but works very well when used on slower than 11.00 cars. They are efficient enough that locking isn't needed.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Tell me the advantages of manual lockup. I see a lot of people doing it. What are they gaining?

And, what would I lose, by keeping a 2800 stall in? I'm guessing it spools faster but... I guess what I am saying is....is your cruising rpm's at say, 70 mph on the highway affected by the stall rpms?

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Tell me the advantages of manual lockup. I see a lot of people doing it. What are they gaining?

And, what would I lose, by keeping a 2800 stall in? I'm guessing it spools faster but... I guess what I am saying is....is your cruising rpm's at say, 70 mph on the highway affected by the stall rpms?

Guys do a manual lock up so they can lock it themselves going down track rather than relying on the ecm to do it.

With the lock-up you don't have to worry about cruise rpm's. Most chips will lock the converter around 45-50 mph at cruise so the stall doesn't effect rpm's at 70......the converter will be locked. Still you want the converter to be matched to the combination or your giving up et when the converter isn't locked. If you depend on the lock-up to offset the losses of a converter that's too loose, your giving up alot until it locks. A 2400 would be as loose as I'd go with a stock turbo and it should work well up to something like a TE-44.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Ah I see. Well, I was told that the stall in mine (it was there when I got it) was 2800. So technically my car should be a monster out of the hole then?
My 245 radial t/a's would light up, but then, sometimes they wouldn't. (with an old KB chip)
So I'm not gaining anything past 2400 with my ported stocker?
I'll go with what you recommend.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Ah I see. Well, I was told that the stall in mine (it was there when I got it) was 2800. So technically my car should be a monster out of the hole then?
My 245 radial t/a's would light up, but then, sometimes they wouldn't. (with an old KB chip)
So I'm not gaining anything past 2400 with my ported stocker?
I'll go with what you recommend.

You will gain low end with a 2800 but it could cost you on the top end. The perfect converter will spool as fast as you need it and couple well up top. No way of knowing if a 2800 will cost you up top without trying it in your car to get data. If it doesn't drop enough on the gear change you need it tightened. A good match could be a 2400 or a 2800.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I see. Thank you very much for this advice. By the way, does it cost much to get a converter restalled? Who should I send it to? I'm sure that going thru the mail will cost me and arm and a leg correct?

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I see. Thank you very much for this advice. By the way, does it cost much to get a converter restalled? Who should I send it to? I'm sure that going thru the mail will cost me and arm and a leg correct?

If you buy a converter from me and it isn't what it needs to be you get a free restall. Shipping isn't bad, usually $30-40

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I have on there, what I was told was a 2800. It's steel colour with a pink stripe. Then, I bought a new neal chance 12" 24 or 2800 LU stall a few months ago. (before I got deployed.)
I'm thinking, to yank mine out, have both of their stalls verified, have one put to 2400, and see if mine's actually 28, then try them both out, see which one I need. I don't plan on going below low 11 second times anytime soon. I'll see which one works better (most likely, the stall you suggested) then I can sell both of them, and put that money into a good one like the ones you suggested.

But I was hoping of a local place to get them checkout out due to the shipping prices.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I have on there, what I was told was a 2800. It's steel colour with a pink stripe. Then, I bought a new neal chance 12" 24 or 2800 LU stall a few months ago. (before I got deployed.)
I'm thinking, to yank mine out, have both of their stalls verified, have one put to 2400, and see if mine's actually 28, then try them both out, see which one I need. I don't plan on going below low 11 second times anytime soon. I'll see which one works better (most likely, the stall you suggested) then I can sell both of them, and put that money into a good one like the ones you suggested.

But I was hoping of a local place to get them checkout out due to the shipping prices.

The easiest thing would be to verify the stall of the Chance converter, If it's off you can supply that info to chance and have them fix it. If your looking to upgrade, a 2400 10" would be the next step.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

yea, but that would include shipping charges. something to the tune of 40 bucks or more lol. checking the stall and/or changing it isn't too much to ask of a local TC shop is it? (im asking because i've no clue as to its complexity)

And yes, I will experiment with them, then sell them and get one of those 10" L/U's you suggested. Thank you sir.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

yea, but that would include shipping charges. something to the tune of 40 bucks or more lol. checking the stall and/or changing it isn't too much to ask of a local TC shop is it? (im asking because i've no clue as to its complexity)

And yes, I will experiment with them, then sell them and get one of those 10" L/U's you suggested. Thank you sir.

The stall has to be verified in your car. If I'm taking your comments in the correct way, there is no way to check the true stall speed of a converter without having it in your car. Too many variables effect the stall speed. When you buy a 2800, the vendor has to predict how it will work with your combo and build it to what certain converter combinations have proven to do in other cars. It's very possible to be off 400 rpm just due to unforseen variables. Even elevation has an effect on stall speed.

If you have a local shop that can work a converter, it's very possible they can change stall speed if you supply them with info of what you need. Be careful though. You never know if they will change the pump, stator, or just take a hammer to the blades to lay them over.

 

[chris718]

Rotating weight has a great effect on how fast the engine gains rpm.This is apparent by anyone who has fired up the engine in their turbo regal with the transmission out of of the car.If an application needed 2600 rpm it would spool up and gain rpm much faster with a 10" converter over a modified d5 type.Any load placed on the flexplate when the car is being staged(ie with the imput shaft stationary)affects engine rpm and turbo spool up time.In this case it would be the torque converter and its oil as well as what it takes to drive the front pump and generate pressure.Pulling the tv cable out with the car in park and at an idle will cause engine the will drop.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Ahh I see. Ok, I'm trackin' now. So it's a possibility that the shop wil rig it eh? I can't have that. I see now that I have to find a reputable shop, that know's turbo buicks eh? I'll ask brian hofer, he's local to me and maybe he can direct me to a local source. If not, I'll have to suck up shipping charges. Thanks for this info guys. Much appreciated.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

Ahh I see. Ok, I'm trackin' now. So it's a possibility that the shop wil rig it eh? I can't have that. I see now that I have to find a reputable shop, that know's turbo buicks eh? I'll ask brian hofer, he's local to me and maybe he can direct me to a local source. If not, I'll have to suck up shipping charges. Thanks for this info guys. Much appreciated.

Check out Mike Ridings. He's blackplague on here and does some converter work and is in MI.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

I see. Thank you