MPEG questions

[TURBOV6]

I am going to buy a Mini DV Sony Video camara and use it when we are at the West Coast Nationals. I been using my Fuji to take MPEG movies but its not that clear but the pictures are good. How do you get MPEG movies that are pretty nice and clear and with a big viewing area.

How is most of the videos downloaded from the internet soo much better than from my ditigal camera?

Is the Mini DV Sony is all I would need? Or a Ditigal 8 better?

 

[granatl]

MPEG records the differences between the current frame and the next frame. Therefor, a very static image will make a much smaller file than a movie with lots of action. The bitrate is the frequency to detect (and apply) these changes, essentially. So a low bitrate makes smaller files, but you sacrifice quality. If I remember correctly, you want about a 3Megabit/sec bitrate.
Compression effects quality too. Professional Hollywood DVD's use a small % of compression, since most of their DVD's are 9.4 GB in size (giving them plenty of room on a disc). If you want to maintain good quality (and have the space), try to stay less than 10% compression (more like 5%).
Finally, encoding size will greatly affect quality. If you encode in some thumbnail size like 240x320 and then try to play in full screen, it will be blocky looking. I think standard DVD output size is 720x480. Again, really rough on disk space.

I can't comment on either camera suggestion, since I have no experience with them. I've only used my 5+ year old analog, and then captured MPEG through computer hardware.

 

[TURBOV6]

So the way to do it is record everything in the Mini DV tape and then transfer or edit on my computer with some kind of video software?

 

[MadPSI]

MiniDV is currently about the only practical way to take amateur video that is fit for, say, making a DVD... This is how it works on a Mac, but I'm sure it's basically the same for PC...

- Video is recorded onto MiniDV tape
- Video is imported onto computer via firewire cable plugged into the camera (or MiniDV compatable vcr)
- Video is in DV format, roughly 4 minutes memory per gigabyte of HD space. Although DV has more artifacts than mpeg2, it's the only thing you can do right now that I know of.
- Video is edited, cut, pasted, whatever on whatever type of editing software you have or bought with the camera. and the result(s) are exported.

DVD-quality video is currently 740 x 480 muxed mpeg2, which is usually 2 files crammed into one, .mpg video and .mp2 or ac3 (dolby) audio. The audio is 224 (223.9) kbps @ 48 kHz.

I don't know anything about what Hollywood's using as far as in digital theatres, but most home DVD players cannot read at the speeds that the movie would have to be encoded in to make it that friggen big. Most dvds you rent from the video store are around 3 gb. The way they get a longer video on the same side is to use lower bitrates, which in turn results in loss of quality. Between 3500 kb/s and 4000 kb/s is a sufficient bitrate for most tvs. Much higher is unnecessary (average DVD player can read up to about 8000 kb/s) and much lower looks bad.

Hope this helps a little. Try the discussion board on www.innobits.com for ideas about the format of the video, and try www.dvdrhelp.com for a wealth of information about what I think you're trying to do.

 

[TURBOV6]

WOW!

Thanks MadPSI! That is the info I needed. Would you know if I will be able to use the USB directly to the Sony? Or will I still need the firewire.

 

[MadPSI]

I don't know if USB is fast enough for DV, it coulld be for all I know. You don't have a Firewire port on your computer do you...

You probably only have a FW port on the camera anyways, so you'd probably have to get some sort of converter to change it to USB, which would probably cost more than just getting a FW card.

I don't know too many specifics about cameras, I don't even own one (getting the truck done comes before toys I guess) I'm not sure Sony's website is going to give you the info that you need, but there is a "Capturing" forum at dvdrhelp.com and you could ask them.

 

[GNandGS]

Whats it for?

If its for internet use and emailing AND you are on a (new) MAC or PC, then use the free software that comes with them. iMovie? Dont remember but Windows Movie Maker2 is pretty good.

Huh? why?
Well, its not an mpg file but since you ref'd the internet why limit yourself to mpg? lol. WMM (or the Mac) will allow for direct encoding... no need to change anything... you can start with a file thats 2-3Kbps which is PLENTY for online_pre_edit_video... do your edits and save it at a lower bitrate for final product.

As for USB... if using 1.1 its fine but at this point you will REALLY like WMM and the wmv file format. 2.0 would be better but all that is a moot point... your camera will most likely only use the USB port for transfering the still shots.

Watch out on the type of SonyDV camera. If getting one of the MINIDV's they lock you into their software for bringing in video and its in a "sony only" format. Not true of most models thankfully.

Im using the Canon Elura40 IT IS AWESOME. Stills are "ok" but thats not its strong point. Features are basically the same as equiv Sony models.

Anywho, yeah, yer gonna use the firewire port. Here is one scenario:

I tape 1h3m of footage.
Bring it to the PC and hook up the firewirecable
Turn on camera and it asks me what program I want to edit with
Say I choose Windows Movie Maker (WMM)
I can choose to compress on the fly or retain the DV format for putting back to tape
I choose DV format.
Record my movie - its automatic. Starts/Stops automatically.
1h3m later, my 13.xG file is ready to edit.
I make my edits, transitions, titles or add a music thingy
I save the file STILL IN DV FORMAT to a BLANK DV TAPE TO THE CAMERA

At this point I have no loss in quality from the original recording, and its stored on a DV tape. What you do from there is your option. My software for DVD's allows authoring direct from the camera... a similar process.

If you havent deleted the project you were working on, you can then REedit to get those 10second clips in any quality you want.

Adobe Premier 6.5 - good program with a nice mpg output PLUGIN. MPG output can be used with any other editor I have. I like WMM better. Expensive

WMM2.0 - better interface and easier to use than any other. WMV format is specific and may not play nice with other editors. Best compression of any other for net use IMO. Im either doing DVD stuff (or want to edit with that level of quality) or net only stuff - WMV. Free with XP

Ulead (I think ver7) - sucked but capture is better than PVCR below. Midrange price

PowerVCR - uh, "ok" interface, vid capture is "ok". Good for software only mpg2. Not too pricey

Arcsoft Showbiz - clunky but worked. Didnt like interface but cheap normally. GOOD EFFECTS. Low price.... promo with the camera so free for me.

Pinnacle - I hear good things about their bundled solutions, I have Expression for DVD. Good interface but VERY picky about format (even AVI) and NO SUPPORT! Grrr... priced like it though. hrmm. This is not an editor but you can do splits/splices that dont actually alter the files. Some control over audio. Does menus.

Sonic MyDVD - Seems outdated but when Pinnacle doesnt work, this might. Still not an editor. Not expensive

Nero! Not an editor but just for its sheer power in talking to your hardware, its tops IMO. If just puting a file on DVD for handing out, its often the easy way.

More info than YOU wanted but I was inspired. I could do some stuff with Windows98 and a Cel533 but thats pushing it! Much happier now with a P4_1.8 and XP and plenty of space.

Dont remember now what camera or pc config but the later stuff is at the bottom of the link and fits this post:
http://www.gwtra.org/media_pics.htm

One of my first edits, and not just encoding something:
http://www.gwtra.org/temp/rc_nascar.WMV
Notice that I am attempting a compromise between quality and SIZE and was not done via firewire dont remember what PC

For stills, watch out for lighting but here are some of what Ive taken with it:
http://www.gwtra.org/temp/malaytrip/page/image46.html
http://www.gwtra.org/images/topeka03/page/image56.html
http://www.gwtra.org/images/church/meats.jpg

Shawn

 

[GNandGS]

Oh, firewire cards are cheeeeap! You can also get it bundled with software if you have a DVD burner...

Im using some "orangelink" card that cost mebbie $30

S

 

[MadPSI]

OK, I'm thoroughly confused here... I think it'd be best to find out exactly what TURBOV6 wants here. Let's not try to cram too much (possibly useless) information into one topic here.

First thing's first. What is TURBOV6's intentions?

I can offer help, but since there are so many options, I don't want to confuse the crap out of this guy.

Here's a sample vid of what you can do with the software I'm talking about... Save As, You Need Quicktime 6.

 

[GNandGS]

I tried to answer them all plus the followups. heh. Sorry, lemme try again... Im pretty sure I know what he wants based on the post.

Originally posted by TURBOV6
I am going to buy a Mini DV Sony Video camara

Thats cool, I was only suggesting an alternative I was happy with, noting a problem with SOME or A model of Sony MiniDV

and use it when we are at the West Coast Nationals. I been using my Fuji to take MPEG movies but its not that clear but the pictures are good. [/B]

That is because its most likely a nice STILL camera with an MPG option. These cut the framerate down and often limit record time so it can fit on a floppy or even be emailed WITHOUT capturing into the computer or editing. Your camera software/USB treats the file like a picture, thus the USB transfer you mentioned?

How do you get MPEG movies that are pretty nice and clear and with a big viewing area. [/B]

By getting good footage to start with. Also, you dont HAVE to go with MPG. If wanting to share with the masses (internet), MPG is a good choice but you can do others. Files need to be small not only for your friends to dload but also so yo can UPload them someplace

How is most of the videos downloaded from the internet soo much better than from my ditigal camera? [/B]

See above.

Is the Mini DV Sony is all I would need? Or a Ditigal 8 better? [/B]

MORE than you NEED. I prefer this approach (mini) but you can get the job done with Digital8. Any of the Sony cameras with " DV Interface (IEEE1394) " are what you want IMO.

For edits, you can get good results either on a Mac or PC... not sure what OpSys is need for the Mac (9x?) but WindowsXP or the Mac will have all you need for good results, WMM is free if you have XP. I suck at editing and my stuff is not an indication of what is possible.

Shawn