My 200R4 build plans and your advice appreciated!

[77bbod]

Great site, btw. Hope you all don't mind a bbody dude here. I am a regular on impalassforum as I have a 94 wagon.

I am here because I have spent hours the last couple weeks reading about the 200r4 (you guys I learned the most from). I have decided to use this tranny in my 77 caprice coupe that I would like to build for my dad for a bday gift in a few months. The car has a 400 sbc well under 300 fwhp range and will have a TPI setup and probably run a 3.42 rear gear and 275/40 tire. Now you know what the car is, and my father won't be too hard on the car and I want it to be a lock up trans.

So far I do not have a 200-4R and will be looking for a core to rebuild. In the research i have done I as of now plan on buying a new TV cable, the master rebuild from CK (#24RRK/C), a GN intermediate servo (#24RS/GN), new TCC solenoid, and governor (don't know which one) and depending on core condition hopefully no hard parts besides pump stator and sun shell in the master kit. So there's about 7-800 bones already.

I am trying to plan ahead and see how much I am going to spend in parts to do this.

So, questons from me:

1. First since I need a core, I have read a lot and am at least aware of the BR's, CZ's, AA's KZ's OZ's, TA model trannies. I doubt I will find a GN, hurst or TA tranny without a big expense. A montess maybe. So I would like to know by using the shift recalibration kit, GN servo, and correct governor, from CKPerf will it work for any 200R4 or do I really need to start with one with a "high performance" valvebody? Why? Remember this isn't a turbo car like yours and I would like to know if I need a coveted valvebody that is so talked about here. Since the AA from the cadillac has seemed to be used with good results (from what I read here a few times) why not any of them even the ones from a weak old 307? So basically i am asking what core should I look for and I am hoping to find one for about a 100 bucks that will work.

2. How do I know what governor to buy? If I do end up with a tranny from a montess, I really don't need one then do I? Just upgrade the servo and do the shift kit? Or just upgrade the servo?

3. WHat kind of shift points can I expect with a heavier car like mine with what valvebody?

4. Are all 200R4's lock ups? Is there anything I should be looking for in what model tranny to have this lock up capability?

5. Rollerizing the internals...is this just merely buying the roller thrust washers instead of using the plastic ones? Which ones are a must to rollerize? I didn't see these on CK's website and don't think they come in his kit.

6. TC selection...any advice on this would be good. I will probably just get a 12" convertor 2200-2800 stall to keep the cost down and my dad probably won't utilize a 9" anyways. Any suggestions on who you guys buy from is appreciated.

I know I have more q's but I can't think. Please offer any advice direction or links..whatever. I'll read it so I can have more q's. haha

Thanks!

Brian

 

[TexasT]

Welcome to the Fray!!

First thing you need to do is to get the CK book and read and reread until you understand the innerworkings. It explains the Roller bearing installations and the dual feed mod you need to do. Check out Some of the posts by the pros like jakeshoe, ck718, brian, bison and others. They all have things that are of interest. Here is a link to a site with pix by jakeshoe. Great stuff.

200-4R Rebuild Article with Pics - NastyZ28.com

As far as the governor the "book" form CK explains how to mod the one that comes with the core you get. I wouldn't be afraid to go with an AA or other core as long as you are performing the mods that are needed.

Do some searching on what others are using for parts. Good stuff on here. Just have to unearth it.

Here are some links hacksaw posted and they have some good info too.

THM 200-4R
Drivetrain Tech
Performance Transmission Services

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/transmission-talk/224444-preferred-frictions.html

As far as the AA code Caddy VB check out AA Valve Body

Great site, btw. Hope you all don't mind a bbody dude here. I am a regular on impalassforum as I have a 94 wagon.

I am here because I have spent hours the last couple weeks reading about the 200r4 (you guys I learned the most from). I have decided to use this tranny in my 77 caprice coupe that I would like to build for my dad for a bday gift in a few months. The car has a 400 sbc well under 300 fwhp range and will have a TPI setup and probably run a 3.42 rear gear and 275/40 tire. Now you know what the car is, and my father won't be too hard on the car and I want it to be a lock up trans.

So far I do not have a 200-4R and will be looking for a core to rebuild. In the research i have done I as of now plan on buying a new TV cable, the master rebuild from CK (#24RRK/C), a GN intermediate servo (#24RS/GN), new TCC solenoid, and governor (don't know which one) and depending on core condition hopefully no hard parts besides pump stator and sun shell in the master kit. So there's about 7-800 bones already.

I am trying to plan ahead and see how much I am going to spend in parts to do this.

So, questons from me:

1. First since I need a core, I have read a lot and am at least aware of the BR's, CZ's, AA's KZ's OZ's, TA model trannies. I doubt I will find a GN, hurst or TA tranny without a big expense. A montess maybe. So I would like to know by using the shift recalibration kit, GN servo, and correct governor, from CKPerf will it work for any 200R4 or do I really need to start with one with a "high performance" valvebody? Why? Remember this isn't a turbo car like yours and I would like to know if I need a coveted valvebody that is so talked about here. Since the AA from the cadillac has seemed to be used with good results (from what I read here a few times) why not any of them even the ones from a weak old 307? So basically i am asking what core should I look for and I am hoping to find one for about a 100 bucks that will work.

2. How do I know what governor to buy? If I do end up with a tranny from a montess, I really don't need one then do I? Just upgrade the servo and do the shift kit? Or just upgrade the servo?

3. WHat kind of shift points can I expect with a heavier car like mine with what valvebody?

4. Are all 200R4's lock ups? Is there anything I should be looking for in what model tranny to have this lock up capability?

5. Rollerizing the internals...is this just merely buying the roller thrust washers instead of using the plastic ones? Which ones are a must to rollerize? I didn't see these on CK's website and don't think they come in his kit.

6. TC selection...any advice on this would be good. I will probably just get a 12" convertor 2200-2800 stall to keep the cost down and my dad probably won't utilize a 9" anyways. Any suggestions on who you guys buy from is appreciated.

I know I have more q's but I can't think. Please offer any advice direction or links..whatever. I'll read it so I can have more q's. haha

Thanks!

Brian

 

[GNsnake]

Get a tranny from Russ Merritt or Brian Hoffer and you'll be set.

 

[77bbod]

mmmm

Get a tranny from Russ Merritt or Brian Hoffer and you'll be set.

Yeah, I thought about just buying one. But for one, I want the experience. I have been through every part of a car besides a tranny. I would like to challenge myself and try it. Two, I am in no hurry and have the space. Three, why the hell not?

 

[77bbod]

alright then....

First thing you need to do is to get the CK book

Man, 70 bucks for that book..anyone got a used one? lol. It must be good.

Rebuild Article with Pics QUOTE]

Awesome link...I seen that and that was why I asked about roller bearings or washers. But I think I was getting my terminology mixed up because looking at PTS website, they are making a bearing that replaces a bushing into the hard part such as the L/R center support. So it appears after reading that the roller bearings I saw in Jakeshoe's article were updated ones that replaced plastic washers by GM? What years were they updated and if I need them who sells that? Are those the GM part no's listed in THM 200-4R url?

I wouldn't be afraid to go with an AA or other core as long as you are performing the mods that are needed.

I am still wondering because I read somewhere on here I think about one of the valves not being as large in the valve body and its performance can never be the same as a "high perf" vb...AND in this link you provided (AA link) CK says the 4/3 downshift is really long and that concerns me along with the other delayed upshifting he mentioned.

Do some searching on what others are using for parts. Good stuff on here. Just have to unearth it.

Definitely....hopefully you and/or others will keep it coming and I will keep searching

 

[TexasT]

Get the Book!

Have you priced text books lately? It's not like he can make it up in volume. I'm sure most of the cost was in the printing. It is well worth what he is asking and so full of info I'm sure anyone who has one would not be willing to part with it.

There is a whole section on the governor and how to modify it to get the part and full throttle shifts where you want them. Of course the brf and the other hp vbs are more desireable and already are in the ball park asd far as their calibrations. This is why they are harder to find and more expensive to start with. The AA code is more common in the wrecking yard but so are the kc and some of the others. The AA is the closest to being one of the hp ones. If you can find one of the hp vb/governor sets it can save countless hours modding and testing. You just have to determine what your time is worth.

 

[77bbod]

So what model of caddy am I looking for? The application chart floating around this site doesn't specify what model the AA is in.


I planned on buying the ATSG book, if I buy CK's do I really need the other?

 

[TexasT]

I have both of the books you mention. If I had to chose I'd get the CK one. The Caddy 4100 usually front the AA trans. Best to slide under and check the tag before pulling or getting it pulled. Also can be found behind a Buick 4.1 but the 4100 is much more common in my experience. The ones with the Olds engine I believe are KC and are not the vb/governor we are looking for. There was talk one here thet there were different worm faces but I don't think this was ever substantiated.

Good luck in your search. You might even find one of the HP ones. Ya never know.

 

[77bbod]

got a USED ck book

Just sealed the deal...found a used CK book for 45. So if I can now find that 100 dollar BRF...LOL! I have found a guy from an unlikely source who might have a montess trans cheap, just waiting on confirmation on code...keeping finger crossed.

 

[TexasT]

Sound good

Sounds good. Read and reread until you understand the inner workings. It isn't rocket science but it is an automatic transmission. Nothing wrong with saving some money but tripping over dollars to pick up nickels just doesn't make sense.

Good luck on the $100 brf. The cheapest on I've been able to score was $200. though the AA are $100-150 in my experience. The MCSS might be a better fit for your app.

Alos check the ck website for the roller bearing stuff. He sells the parts along with the bearings ready to install.
www.CKPerformance.com

Rich