Need ideas on new device

[Razor]

OK... this will push things a little further out

I have located an alcohol flow sensor that can measure how much alcohol is being put into the motor. Question is what would be slick for such a device to do?

Here are some thoughts..

Make a simple LED bar graph that as the flow increases it increments the led's. Simple..kinda

Make an interface to use the MAT input on our cars and be able to record how much flow is occuring while going down the track. Will require some dancing with numbers.. to get it interpreted.

Make an interface and have a guage.. like a 2 5/8 tachometer.. as the flow increases so does the tach's readings.

It will be possible to have a shut down circuit with such a device that unless such flow is happening, shut the motor down/ bring boost down, as a fail safe. This is also part of the planning.

No its not cheap.. devices like these never are, but its a step in making a better product.

Could use some feedback on this product. Just think one year ago I was asking feedback for a progressive controller

 

[TY2185]

I use flow sensing devices (Ultrasonic) in the products I help design and manufacture.
I know from what we use they are very expensive. These sensors are used in cardiovascular (bypass) surgery. Used to determine blood flow in clear “Tygon” tubing.

I’ve been researching water and alky injection for a few months now. From what I’ve read your kit it will soon be in my Typhoon.

As far as Ideas for use in your alky kit the ability to determine total flow would be cool. Say you reset the metering just before a run and measure flow though the ¼ mile. Then you could see how consistent your use of alky would be from run to run.

As far as the light show I personally really hate digital read out for anything where data changes at a high rate. I would like to see your analog gauge idea instead.

Just my .02

 

[Razor]

Thanks.. I hear ya on the digital readout. I dont like that as well. You brought a good point to being able to measure volume. Neat. And tho I dont think for a vehicle app, something very precise is needed.. i'll look into it. A counter would be able and read pulses and determine how much..

I was looking at the autometer 2 5/8 mini-tachs.. and could possibly get the flow sensor to work with one of those. That way during a run the higher the flow, the higher the readout on the guage(tach). And making adjustments would alter those readings.

For most, things of this nature are not needed.. for others it solidifies the system an extra step. Yes its not cheap, but not out of reach either. And would beyond a reasonable doubt tell you its flowing alcohol.

Thanks for the thumbs up on the system

 

[Raven]

Light bar or gauge

Not having an alky kit yet (but it's coming soon and it will be yours when I do) I would prefer to see a gauge or a light bar of sorts.

I agree with TY2185 - digital numbers are hard to read/decipher, especially when you're in the midst of racing.

Consider my vote for a light bar or a gauge.

GREAT idea.

 

[Slow91z]

It would be really nice if you could interface it with the stock tach on the regals...Give some use to that piece of crap.

 

[Razor]

May be easier interfacing with the led boost guage... I think a 20 segment individual display will allow resolution. Like a bar graph.

Keep em coming

 

[turbowidow]

would you really benifet from knowing the flow? i would like some kind of shutdown for the motor in case of no alky flow. not knowing how your new toy works- could you tie this into the ESC module and have a no flow condition retard the hell out of the motor before the motor sees critical boost? this is one of the reasons i have hesitated putting this on my car- get alky on, set boost sky high, then loose pressure while having boost jacked up and losing the motor!

thanks for putting this out here for us, i love this kind of stuff and all the good discussion that follows

 

[postal]

Rate would be cool and an analog gauge would be the best I think.

What about a 2 stage progressive? Where you could have a small first stage and still kind of high pressure for better atomization. Then have the second stage kick in and then start going even higher pressure. Maybe set it up where the 2nd stage didnt come in until 2nd gear. Then once both stages are on and shes loaded down in second gear start having the pump pressure go up.

Jason

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by turbowidow
would you really benifet from knowing the flow? i would like some kind of shutdown for the motor in case of no alky flow. not knowing how your new toy works- could you tie this into the ESC module and have a no flow condition retard the hell out of the motor before the motor sees critical boost? this is one of the reasons i have hesitated putting this on my car- get alky on, set boost sky high, then loose pressure while having boost jacked up and losing the motor!

thanks for putting this out here for us, i love this kind of stuff and all the good discussion that follows

Well see a lot of things can happen when racing a car. When you put the pedal down.. all we can do is try and minimize risks. The flow sensor idea is something to add to a system as an extra insurance policy. Like drivers side airbags for cars.

I have never been able to comeup with any system that can implemented and bring our engines down safely. I though of killing power to the ecm, but then the application of power while car is still going is questionable.. let alone having the computer relearn. And any other system(maf, tps, crank signal, rpm limit, etc) on our cars it cuts fuel off.

Beyond bringing boost down.. dunno. I'll look into the knock sensor.

My system has never failed. yet. and this I attribute to selecting good components and properly installing wiring. But that doesnt mean it wont ever fail. Anything mechanical is prone to failure. Wires, plugs, sensors, fuel pump, injector, valve spring, timing chain, oil pump, nuts and bolts, see where this is going. Plenty of cars running race gas are blowing them up. So its a point to CYA ones system.

This is something I'd like to do as a tuning tool, more than a safety tool. If my alcohol injection systems were failing, then I would worry and add this. Hence my reason for using an inline filter.. to make sure the nozzle will never get clogged. But since the pumps havent failed, putting an umbrella in the desert for when it rains.. it will be a long time coming.

Could it be done, certainly.. would it sell??? Dunno. havent sold any pressure guages since I started selling these kits. Theres been no need for them.

I'll see

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by postal
Rate would be cool and an analog gauge would be the best I think.

What about a 2 stage progressive? Where you could have a small first stage and still kind of high pressure for better atomization. Then have the second stage kick in and then start going even higher pressure. Maybe set it up where the 2nd stage didnt come in until 2nd gear. Then once both stages are on and shes loaded down in second gear start having the pump pressure go up.

Jason

Hey Donkster,

Havent seen a need yet. If you want to really ramp my kits pressure, use a volt booster. I'll show you the moon. Can actually have a volt booster kick in at second gear, or do it on a timer. Figure how long it takes, and switch the volt booster on. Like release brakes, 3.5 seconds latter switch the voltbooster on. Increasing voltage to the pump..increases its output big time. Thats a simple way to have a progressive with a kick.

See I have thought of these thingsss...

 

[tim87tr]

I just got a car with a double fp and am not sure of the exact mechanics of how it works. Could a second stage of alky, as postal mentioned, activate with the second pump. Doesn't that pump turn on as a result of the detection of a set boost level, and isn't that the method the alky uses also to activate also?

 

[geno]

I never have time to look at my gages so id like to hear a alarm go off and flashing lights LOL. This will be a great field check for your system. Knowing that X amount of voltage should =X amount of flow Hit the test button not just to see if the pump is running but know its going to keep up..Just like i do with my fuel sysytem because i know at 40# and 13 volts to the pump it should bypass 2.5 GPM. I just take the return line off and run it into a marked container.It gives me thet warm fussy feeling i need knowing my fuel system is working right. By the way Razor i cant wait to play with my new system

 

[19gn87]

Ok...let's just do it this way. HERE'S THE IDEA.

 

[19gn87]

Here's an updated version . Let us know when it ready.

 

[Morkai]

Safety shutoff

Razor, instead of shutting off spark or fuel flow in the event of pump failure or low pressure, why not trigger say a solenoid to divert full boost to the wastegate and bring boost down? You should even be able to do that without the expensive flow sensor, but just a pressure switch and some type of solenoid to control the wastegate signal. I'm sure this wouldn't be as quick as killing ignition, but would be a lot easier on the engine and give the driver time to lift w/o the engine dying.

I like the flow rate gauge idea too, but a simple switch could be the basic overboost protection for cheaper kits.

Just my 2c...

 

[Razor]

Clogged nozzle will give you pressure...


I thought of using a normally closed solenoid across the wastgate hoses. Any issue.. open the solenoid and bring boost down to actuator level. On an HSD actuator would be like 18 PSI.. a lot better than 30

probably could do current sensing on the pump, whereby if the current exceeds "X" due to a clogged nozzle..then shut things down.. but current sensing can be risky.

I'll still will thinks about it.

Can also kill fuel and spark, and not reset the computer. two relays of off a time delay.. once it fires it shuts down fuel and spark for a predetermined time.. then reconnects them.