New EPA Regs Make Our Cars Illegal?

[Darth Fiero]

What more shall we do, oh wise one?

Would you and the poor, poor picked upon Darth Fiero PLEASE guide us lowly and uneducated folk to the promised land????? We obviously cannot think for ourselves and don't understand the workings of the big bad world that is out there.

We need leadership.........

Please help the unwashed masses and lead us to the way, the way to beat the EPA, as we are just minnows in the deep, deep, blue sea.

Such a classy post I wanted to quote it for posterity's sake.

 

[novaderrik]

then what happens when it comes time to register your car and it's up to you to prove to them that you didn't modify it in any way?
remeber, it won't just be about having a cat and charcoal canister gas cap on the car: it will be about having the factory cat and charcoal canister and gas cap on the car... in the factory locations... hooked up with factory parts... with no mods allowed to the drivetrain from the air filter to the tailpipe AT ALL... and it won't be up to them to find anything that isn't right: it will be up to you to prove that EVERYTHING is right.

ask anyone that works on airplanes to tell you what the regs will look like: you can't change ANYTHING from factory on airplanes unless it is a factory certified change. and also keep in mind that the official stance of the EPA is that it has always been illegal to modify cars for offroad use but they have been extra super nice and allowed race cars to slide for the last 50 years...

they won't come and take your car: they will make you take it out of circulation yourself.

 

[TurboTGuy]

Such a classy post I wanted to quote it for posterity's sake.

I'm gad you liked it.

 

[Darth Fiero]

you don't seem to understand one fundamental flaw with the entire process ... the biggest problem ... enforcement .

let me just give you 1 example of many ... PROHIBITION .

They can ban all the parts they want .. I promise you there will still be TONS and TONS of parts in circulation .. Some people that make the parts will not .. but where there is opportunity for $$$$ or a challenge others will pick up where they left off .. and may even improve the parts ..

Don't be so naïve ... there are a lot of intelligent people out there that have nothing better to do with their time than to stick it to the man ..

Who knows in some strange way it may even benefit the masses ... it might mean a guy that drops 15K in cool guy parts to run 11's may actually have to use some stock parts to run the same numbers which means he could take the 12K he saved and have a few nice vacations , or if he was chicken little he could donate to a charity group to help repeal current EPA regulations or prevent future ones .

How difficult it is going to be for the EPA to enforce these new regs against companies offering products or services that would be completely banned under these new regs, if they get passed?

Since you have all the answers and say I'm worrying about nothing, please explain how I can work around these new regs and keep paying my bills if they get passed without having to change professions.

 

[turbo89]

then what happens when it comes time to register your car and it's up to you to prove to them that you didn't modify it in any way?
remeber, it won't just be about having a cat and charcoal canister gas cap on the car: it will be about having the factory cat and charcoal canister and gas cap on the car... in the factory locations... hooked up with factory parts... with no mods allowed to the drivetrain from the air filter to the tailpipe AT ALL... and it won't be up to them to find anything that isn't right: it will be up to you to prove that EVERYTHING is right.

ask anyone that works on airplanes to tell you what the regs will look like: you can't change ANYTHING from factory on airplanes unless it is a factory certified change. and also keep in mind that the official stance of the EPA is that it has always been illegal to modify cars for offroad use but they have been extra super nice and allowed race cars to slide for the last 50 years...

they won't come and take your car: they will make you take it out of circulation yourself.

That is not correct .. the burden of proof is on the EPA to prove what parts are in violation of the regulations .. which is why enforcement will be impossible
They would need to have a vehicle specialist for EVERY vehicle type .. they tried this before and decided it wasn't working so amended the regulations based on resource cost and
budget constraints . They realized they could not enforce what they proposed ... i.e. there were too many ways to get around the regulations .. which there always will be.

 

[turbo89]

How difficult it is going to be for the EPA to enforce these new regs against companies offering products or services that would be completely banned under these new regs, if they get passed?

Since you have all the answers and say I'm worrying about nothing, please explain how I can work around these new regs and keep paying my bills if they get passed without having to change professions.

simple you are going to have to start using your BRAIN !

There are so many loopholes its ridiculous ... if you can't figure it out .. then perhaps its time for you change professions !!!

Now quit pouting on here and start being creative and thinking of ways !! Where there is a will there is a way !

 

[TurboTGuy]

then what happens when it comes time to register your car and it's up to you to prove to them that you didn't modify it in any way?
remeber, it won't just be about having a cat and charcoal canister gas cap on the car: it will be about having the factory cat and charcoal canister and gas cap on the car... in the factory locations... hooked up with factory parts... with no mods allowed to the drivetrain from the air filter to the tailpipe AT ALL... and it won't be up to them to find anything that isn't right: it will be up to you to prove that EVERYTHING is right.

ask anyone that works on airplanes to tell you what the regs will look like: you can't change ANYTHING from factory on airplanes unless it is a factory certified change. and also keep in mind that the official stance of the EPA is that it has always been illegal to modify cars for offroad use but they have been extra super nice and allowed race cars to slide for the last 50 years...

they won't come and take your car: they will make you take it out of circulation yourself.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of gov't reg's out there that had to "grandfather in" the already existing businesses, suppliers and consumers they affect because the gov't had, as you stated, already "been extra super nice and allowed ..."

I'm not now and never have said the reg's won't/can't be put in place.

All I've been saying is trying to put the genie back in the bottle will be a monumental task and since the gov't has already "been extra super nice and allowed race cars to slide for the last 50 years..." it will be met with stiff resistance every step of the way.

At least that is what we must make happen if these reg's are as eminent as you say.

 

[Darth Fiero]

simple you are going to have to start using your BRAIN !

There are so many loopholes its ridiculous ... if you can't figure it out .. then perhaps its time for you change professions !!!

Now quit pouting on here and start being creative and thinking of ways !! Where there is a will there is a way !

Wait, you don't know? You've been posting on here saying there are all these ways and loopholes of getting around laws and regulations. I thought you knew how to do it. Why don't you share? I'm sure I'm not the only business owner who would like to know.

I want to hear how YOU would do it. Put your money where you mouth is and prove you know what you are talking about. I already know what I'm going to do, I just want to hear your ideas.

 

[Darth Fiero]

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of gov't reg's out there that had to "grandfather in" the already existing businesses, suppliers and consumers they affect because the gov't had, as you stated, already "been extra super nice and allowed race cars to slide for the last 50 years..."

Please point out to me in these proposed regs, how they are written now, where it says they are going to "grandfather in" all existing businesses and products.

Because the way I read it, it sure sounds like these proposed regs prohibit the whole idea of "grandfathering" any existing businesses, products, or services.

 

[TurboTGuy]

Wait, you don't know? You've been posting on here saying there are all these ways and loopholes of getting around laws and regulations. I thought you knew how to do it. Why don't you share? I'm sure I'm not the only business owner who would like to know.

I want to hear how YOU would do it. Put your money where you mouth is and prove you know what you are talking about. I already know what I'm going to do, I just want to hear your ideas.

If he does have the answers, why should he give them to you? He doesn't owe you a thing.

Why shouldn't he just take all your customers and business revenues, instead?

After all, that's the American Way.

 

[TurboTGuy]

Please point out to me in these proposed regs, how they are written now, where it says they are going to "grandfather in" all existing businesses and products.

Because the way I read it, it sure sounds like these proposed regs prohibit the whole idea of "grandfathering" any existing businesses, products, or services.

Again, quit blustering and do your own homework.

 

[turbo89]

Again, quit blustering and do your own homework.

It's always easier to have someone do the thinking for you ..

 

[Darth Fiero]

If he does have the answers, why should he give them to you? He doesn't owe you a thing.

Why shouldn't he just take all your customers and business revenues, instead?

After all, that's the American Way.

Hey, I'm not the one saying the EPA can't do this or that.. I want to know why you say they can't. Specifics. Facts. Legal precedent.

You guys are using up a lot of bandwidth, but I have yet to see any useful information posted by either of you.

 

[Darth Fiero]

Again, quit blustering and do your own homework.

I see the lips moving, but I don't hear anything of substance being said.

 

[turbo89]

Wait, you don't know? You've been posting on here saying there are all these ways and loopholes of getting around laws and regulations. I thought you knew how to do it. Why don't you share? I'm sure I'm not the only business owner who would like to know.

I want to hear how YOU would do it. Put your money where you mouth is and prove you know what you are talking about. I already know what I'm going to do, I just want to hear your ideas.

Wait .. WTF is the burden of proof on me all the sudden .. do your own thinking .. your Chicken little not me .. I'm not worried about it one bit ..

your the one that has to come up with the solution for you as YOUR the one that is worried !

For all I care LET them pass this .. and try to enforce it ... in the end I will get the last laugh

 

[Darth Fiero]

It's always easier to have someone do the thinking for you ..

Are you saying you have no factual information to back up your argument?

 

[Darth Fiero]

Wait .. WTF is the burden of proof on me all the sudden .. do your own thinking .. your Chicken little not me .. I'm not worried about it one bit ..

your the one that has to come up with the solution for you as YOUR the one that is worried !

For all I care LET them pass this .. and try to enforce it ... in the end I will get the last laugh

The burden of proof is on you because you are the one making the claim nothing can or will happen. And you are also making the claim that even if it does get passed, there are loopholes and ways around it. I just want to hear about these loopholes and ways around the law you seem to know.

 

[turbo89]

I see the lips moving, but I don't hear anything of substance being said.

And what of substance have you added other than fueling the fire ! WTF give it a rest already ..

REALLY honestly .. the SKY IS NOT FALLING ! trust me .. let them play their hand .. we'll play ours ... GUARANTEE this will not turn out how they think and they KNOW this !

 

[turbo89]

The burden of proof is on you because you are the one making the claim nothing can or will happen. And you are also making the claim that even if it does get passed, there are loopholes and ways around it. I just want to hear about these loopholes and ways around the law you seem to know.

NO WHAT I AM saying is THEY CANT ENFORCE THIS !!!
AND THEY KNOW IT !!!

Its a bullshit scare tactic that you are helping fuel !

 

[Darth Fiero]

NO WHAT I AM saying is THEY CANT ENFORCE THIS !!!
AND THEY KNOW IT !!!

Its a bullshit scare tactic that you are helping fuel !

So if I get hauled into court by the EPA, do you think "THEY CANT ENFORCE THIS" is going to be a viable argument I can use that will cause the judge to dismiss the case?