New Grand National - Help with a setup

[Fast4Ward]

Oh btw Cam.. Welcome to the dark side . Ur gonna like it here

 

[camarox53]

Thank you Fast4Ward, I appreciate that!

Unfortunately, I agree with you, my generation does seem to be trending towards what you described
However, I would rather spend my money working on a legendary car then buying some of the useless things I see others buy. But to each their own.

Just as a side note, my dad is really big gear head and is the one who got me involved with cars at such a young age. He drag raced his 69 Camaro for years. He will be available to help me with any modifications that I need to make to the car.

Thanks guys,
Cam

 

[Pronto]

Like other say, read and educate yourself. Take a step back and make a few realistic goals first b/f shooting for 10s. Get it running great first, go to the track. You should be able to run in the low 14s. Do useful mods for traction that will carry you on to faster times. Shoot for low13s next with more typical mods. Get the point? It can be done but be prepared, these cars are finicky. Many times it's one step forward and two steps back!

 

[Chuck Leeper]

A suggestion on the $10K comment....Don't advertize what U have to spend. When you do that, the price is often predicated on getting some of that $10K.
IE: A turbo that's available, and should be $700, is now $950!
Find someone in your area with experience, and ask for help/suggestions.

 

[Nascar83Fan]

That's cool that you get to work on your GN with your dad and that you got the gear head bug from him.
Glad to hear you're looking for help before you do what many unexperienced TR owners have done which was after breaking stuff coming here looking for help then they disappear after awhile never to be heard from again in most cases. You definitely made a good choice on being a part of this Dark Side community, you'll find alot of knowledgeable and helpful members here. It's cool to be different and alot of times being given alot of enjoyment from a little turbo 231 v6 that screams like crazy in a car that seats 5 people, weighs 3400-3800lbs and has working A/C with decent gas mileage.

 

[camarox53]

Nascar83Fan, I couldn't agree more lol. I wasn't sure how to go about the 10K statement but I figured I would try and provide as much detail as I could on what I was looking to do and how much I had to make it happen, thanks Chuck. As Pronto said, I am shooting for the useful mods to begin with, I was just throwing a 10sec number out there to see what was feasible and to have a very long distant goal. However, with what I am learning from others 10s may be out of my range if I plan to have a reliable street car.

Just as a quick side question in case anyone happens to know:
My dad stumbled upon a dirt cheap 3.8L v6 out of a 1988 Olds Delta 88, and I was wondering if that is the same motor that is in the Grand National or how similar they were? I am trying to do some research on that now.

Thanks,
Cam

 

[V6sleeper]

You will be very surprised how fast an 11.50-11.70 car is on the street, thats what I would aim for and be done with it if your not a track guy, And welcome aboard...

 

[camarox53]

Thanks v6sleeper,
I am more of a street guy myself just due to limited time to go to the drag strip. There are not really any that close to where I live either. Systems Administrator job keeps me pretty preoccupied when I am not taking classes in college.

-Cam

 

[VtheGNMan]

Cam,
Its been nice to see you reply/respond so well to the advise you are hearing in the forum. These guys know their stuff and will speak honestly and frankly.
I ran across this discussion that took place on a diff forum here, I think it really sums up the helpfulness of the TR community.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/new-guy-about-to-purchase-an-87-gn.413401/

One thing I am always surprised by with the GNs I have owned is the intimidation factor of one. I was surprised how many guys didn't even want to race on the street just because they heard these cars destroy others. At one time I was driving an '84, a hotair model which is an awesome machine but at bone stock is no where near the power of the intercooled models. I never raced anyone in the years of driving one. Not once. I won a lot of races though!

A true 11, 11.5 or a low 12 sec street car (that has A/C and gets 20mpg) will have a hard time finding a street race that it will be beaten in. Mustangs-not even close. Camero's-please... Those guys who lay down a huge chunk of change for a new Boss or even a Vette will be blown away. They won't know how to drive them to the factory specs and/or their tires will be too hard to be sticky enough on the street to even lay down the power.

I love a quote I read on Vortex: "Please note that parts installation is only one facet of the experience. Someone made me laugh the other day when he posted that a 12 second car was sometimes the combination of 10 second parts with a 14 second owner. My experience says that is very true."

Tune it as mentioned above by the other guys. Getting it running really well and then add one piece of the puzzle one piece at a time.
The best read I can find is Julio's write up on tuning an Alky System (his Razor). I know you are not there yet as you don't have alky but read how much time and effort into tuning should be put into the base car and set up before doing anything more. Once it's there then you can start adding go fast pieces.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/tuning-the-alkycontrol-kit.147348/

Also it was mentioned about not posting how much money you have spend as people want a piece of that. Most of the vendor that are on here are great. There are a few exceptions though which I will not mention. Take the time to read the vendor section and the feedback section. Note that it takes a lot of being continually pissed off by someone to post a neg post about them on here. Most guys start by saying, okay enough is enough. The other vendors are bend over backwards awesome guys. Before you purchase from any company, search the company and/or product on here to see what was said about them and the product you are looking for. You will not regret buying from a great company, even if the part costs you a couple more dollars.

Above all, welcome the TR world! Get some pics of your car too and post them (engine bay too) and update your sig with everything you know about the car. It is very easy to continue to update your sig when you start getting into things. I am always surprised by how much can be seen in a simple engine bay pic shot.

 

[V6sleeper]

Ive beatin a lot of 60k-80 thousand dollar cars on the street with my $8k regal, that's the best part of owning one is to see their faces..

 

[VtheGNMan]

That is no kidding! My older brother spent like $6k on a stroker 383 and he could beat almost anything, until he pulled up against my stock 87 T Type Limited that I had bought for $2750. I had to back pedal it to keep the boost down cause it would start spittin and chunkin, but it didn't matter, I had 6-7 car lengths on him by that time anyway. He sold it 2 weeks later. Never has gotten over that. (That purchase is a story all of it's own.)

 

[camarox53]

Thanks VtheGNMan, I am finding these forums very very helpful! I am very appreciative of all of the support everyone has been giving me, it really means a lot!

I am currently working 2 hours away from my house Monday-Thursday. However I will be home, Thursday-Sunday. I plan on taking a few pics of the GN and posting them up on here. I have been slowly cleaning it up as I get time. The worst part of the whole car is the hood, some of the clear bubbled up and it looks a little rough. However, my Dad and I built a paint booth in the garage to paint my 69 Camaro that we restored together. So I believe the plan is to re-paint the hood and the new bumper fillers I have coming in. That should make it look much better.

As for the engine bay, it needs a little cleaning as well. I am going to pull off the intake and valve cover pans and paint them black (They could really use it).

Another thing I wanted to mention is that I am not sure of everything that has been done to the car prior to me getting it. The previous owners had the shift kit, an adjustable waste gate and a few other things on there when I got it. With that said, I am still trying to figure out what is stock and what is not. I know that the brakes have been upgraded in some way but I will have to ask my dad about that as I can't remember exactly what was done.

With the stock chip, the car runs great, it turns the tires shifting into 2nd very hard, corners pretty well and just drives good in general. I have a 300HP Jeep Grand Cherokee and I feel like the Buick would smoke it. It is fully possible that there are other things about this car I don't know about yet.

When I got the car I also found a black box in the trunk, it has a few wires coming of of it and has a "311351" barcode on the side. It also says "25521351" and "6129REV V". There is a place at the end of the box for something to plug into but I have noo idea what this is or where it would go. I will try and post some pictures up soon. If anyone has a clue what this is and could let me know, that would be great.

Thanks,
Cam

 

[Pronto]

Just as a quick side question in case anyone happens to know:
My dad stumbled upon a dirt cheap 3.8L v6 out of a 1988 Olds Delta 88, and I was wondering if that is the same motor that is in the Grand National or how similar they were? I am trying to do some research on that now.

Thanks,
Cam

Not many usefull parts...

 

[camarox53]

v6sleeper, That's awesome!, I would love to have my GN running like that! It would have to cause some funny reactions on other peoples faces!

Pronto, thanks for the reply on that, it has apparently been rebuilt awhile back and the car has been junked. If I could get it for dirt cheap would you recommend it? I believe a friend of my dads has it currently.

 

[earlbrown]

If it's an 88 it should be a FWD engine. Nothing you can use there.

the box in your trunk is an ignition module.




Oh, and do not pull that intake manifold just to paint it. That's a can of worms that isn't worth the risk .vs reward.

 

[VtheGNMan]

Black box? Maybe you just found the missing piece to the Malaysian missing flight! Take a pic of it, I'm sure we'll be able to ID it. I have been going thru the same thing with my GN, trying to ID all the stuff that was done by the previous owners. It takes some time and I have made plenty of mistakes along the way. I have bought a couple pieces that I didn't need to but it's all part of the process. Mike with Spoolfool said something that stuck with me, he said someone told him or he heard, "if you can't make it go fast, Chrome it." I have been removing chrome ever since. I have been going all brushed aluminum look, something unique at least. But to each his own.

 

[camarox53]

Thanks Earl, I will let that one pass then. From what I could find on the internet the black box is an ignition module as earl stated. Is this something that I need or could be of benefit to me? I am not really that familiar with them.

I will try and post up a pic tomorrow or late tonight when I get home.

VtheGNMan, I like the sound of the brushed aluminium look, I bet that goes well with the car. I haven't decided what I am going to do with mine yet.

Earl, you said painting the intake manifold was a bad idea? Not easy to remove I presume?

-Cam

 

[Pronto]

He means if there is no mechanical reason to pull it, don't.

 

[Nascar83Fan]

The shock factor is one of the joys of owning something different, as is getting asked what the heck is that thing.
It's priceless to see unsuspecting peoples faces and jaws drop that a in good running condition 2 door 80's buick with a v6 that seats 5 people, has working A/C with good fuel mileage pooped all over their cars that they put many times over more money into than the TR needed to go fast.

Someone on the forum did a rusty bullet build and had it going faster than 12's on a small budget with some members helping out with selling them left over parts i believe.
Maybe someone can find the link and post it so you can see some ideas.

Look forward to the pictures and hearing the progress you & your dad make on the GN.

On a side note, this was from a movie that came out a few years back. This was one of the best parts of the movie Born to Race. Truer words may not of been spoken.
Frank quickly ended up shutting up the loud mouth in the other car.

not the best quality but was what i could find that was in english

 

[earlbrown]

Earl, you said painting the intake manifold was a bad idea? Not easy to remove I presume?

-Cam

No, its easy as hell. 10 manifold bolts, two fuel lines and a few plugs and hoses and it comes off in one big chunk.


(here's where the experience comes in)...


You start with a running car... Then you pull the manifold and some crud and bearing-eating antifreeze falls into the engine. Then you take the whole thing apart. You might tear up the water pipe adapter because it's got 29 years of galvanic corrosion locking it in place and the threads come out with it. Since it's tapered pipe threads, after getting your hands on a 1/2"NPT tap, you learn that if you go too deep, you can't seal it up anymore because the metal is not gone (but, hey, any day you learn something is a good day). Then the radiator hose neck gets murderized getting it out. There's more down time and another parts order.

While the injectors are out, might as well send them to Chuck to get cleaned and flowed since the cars down and can't be driven. And since you're waiting on Chuck and a thermostat neck it's time to clean and paint and get a $30 gasket on the way.....


Well, hell, since the manifold is off it's time for the "I might as well's". Might as well get rid of the EGR tower, might as well get rid of the stupid lip on all the intake ports, might as well order an EGR block off kit to clean it up a little, might as well add a powerplate then accidentally strip out a plenum bolt hole.

Now it's time to drink beer and wait on a metric heli-coil kit so the threads can be fixed........... But hey! The manifold is pretty shiny black now (even though the car can't be driven anymore)

That whole thing wasn't not meant to dissuade you from working on your car, it's just showing how things domino when you start messing with stuff. And keep in mind, everyone of that steps and surprises, you'll be hit with the first time... which means, coming here, making a post, reading the replys, formulating a game plan, initialing the game plan (hoping it works perfect the first time), and going from there.


Do you really want to spend hundreds and risk having your car be yard art just so you can paint it black? Seems the risk .vs reward isn't really worth it.

If it was a Torker II with a Holley 6018 on it, I'd say 'go for it'. But it isn't.



That car has a LOOOOOOONG list of PM work that needs to be done. Manifold hue is the least of your worries.