New here, Getting ready to buy my first!

J

JustinOhio

New Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Hello everyone... I'm new to this board from Fremont Ohio and I'm wanting buy a National and was hoping that some of you could answer some questions that I have :)

Anyways, I was looking at this 86 Grand National today and I test drove it. Unfortunately I don't know a whole lot about these cars and I have no idea what to look for or even how to tell if it's real.. I'll tell you as much as I can remember in one post ;)

125k miles

VIN# 1G4GK4779GP449547

The VIN was located in the door frame (on the car, not on the door). There was no vin up in the dashboard, didn't know if this was normal or not. When I did a carfax report it came back as a Buick T-Type, does this mean it's not a real Grand National?

The paint was a little faded but overall the car looked nice. A couple very minor chips and no dents as far as I could tell.

The owner (who is a migrant from Florida that doesn't speak good english) said that at some point, someone had replaced the front grille with a T-type grille.

The interrior is real nice.

The engine compartment was clean and I could see no signs of any leaks.

Mods he had on it were 3 inch flowmasters and 40 pound fuel enjecters, which he said were bran new. The exhaust only went half way back. He also had a K&N on it.

Problems that I noticed was that the tach display was wrong. At an idle it showed 3000 and under normal driving it was pretty much always redlined. The boost guage seemed to work fine.

The shifter was some crap that someone put on aftermarket and for some reason it wouldn't go all the way back to first gear, it stopped at second, but the shifter would be next the the "one", almost like it just didn't have enough room to go all the way back. Plus the shifter moved to or from any gear without having to push any buttons. Another thing that I noticed while driving it is that when you let off the gas (after the turbo was spooled up) I heard a weird noise come from the left side of the exhaust. I'm assuming that this is the waste gate but I wasn't sure if that would supposed to be heard. The only way to describe it is it sounded like a fluttering air release that lasted less than a second.

All Grand National emblems seemed to be present but again, I didn't know where they all should be ect...

He wants 6 grand for the car FIRM... He wouldn't move on the price at all.

Any advice???
 
First of all, with the VIN tag on the door, this car was stolen and recovered. I would pass on this one myself. The seventh digit being a 7 indicates a T/R. Not sure if VIN is diffferent for a GN. The shifter is screwed up because it is for a 3 speed trans I am guessing. The noise is normal and you will hear that on any car that has the stock air box removed. Turbo sneeze I believe its called. No tailpipes with flows on a GN. That is pretty lame. As for oil leaks, most of these cars will have a rear main seal leak, so get used to it. How much are you lookin to spend? There are some decent high mile cars out there in the 6-8K range, and I think you should find another one. Just my opinion though.
 
My limit is pretty much 6k. I don't have the cash so I have to finance it, and my bank won't go higher than like 2 1/2 years on a car that old. And at that my payments will be around 200 a month. Which sucks because I have a 2000 Firebird, no, it's just a V6, with payments of 360 a month ;)

Wouldn't carfax have shown if the car was stolen?
 
I'd stay away. Anyone that knows these cars stays away from flowmasters. My bet on the shifter is just that one of the bolts holding the linkage on the tranny is loose, and it's a SIMPLE fix. Could just be wrong kind of shifter too. In Ohio? Check for rust, like on the bottom of the doors, and the gas tank, also bottom of body panels at the rear of car. Wrong rpms on the tach and whatnot... it's obvious this guy is less mechanically inclined than I am-which is bad for someone owning one of these. Keep looking man, your dream car is out there somewhere :D Good luck
 
Justin,

You said the gentlemen was from Florida. Was the car itself from Florida?? You didn't see any VIN number on the dash, in the windshield on the driver's side?? A bit strange.

As far as the shifting into first... it may just be slightly out of adjustment. It's rare to put these cars in first anyways for normal driving purposes. As said before.. the exhaust sounds like a hack job. As far as it being a Grand National or not... the way that I remember Buick marketing these cars, they were either Regal's, T-types, or T-types with the Grand National option. I don't know if this can be traced by way of the VIN code.

As for the miles, that's a bit high and you may have to do some preventative work to have a 'sound' car.

The noise from the turbo is turbo sneeze.. that's normal. The tachometer being way off.. that's normal.

My other suggestions, if you are serious is to look on gnttype.org for information about buying on of these cars. It's fairly indepth and tells what you can and should look for. Also, I know there are many Turbo Regal owners in the Ohio area. You said you're from Fremont.. what area is that near?? Perhaps you can find someone who would be willing to help you look at a few Turbo Regals for some beer payment or something. :) You may also have to widen your search area. Don't think just because it's the TR down the street that it's THE CAR... many members travel long distances to find what suits their needs.

Did you happen to check the oil for any sign of gas or anti freeze? Does it have the Grand National interior. Another idea, if you can't find anyone to help you is bring a digital camera. Snap some shots and post 'em to a website.

Hope that helps.
 
Cool, I'll check that buyers guide out. To be honest, when spending 6 grand on a National, I don't expect the world. Basically I'm looking for a nice V6 hotrod. There's just something about stomping on people with a V6 that's very appealing to me ;) And the car, with the small issues, seems to be in good condition and runs good. I plan on keeping this car for a long time and will probably put a LOT of money in it over the next few years... I really don't have the resources or the time to travel around looking at different GN's to make a decision on one. And from what I've seen so far, it's pretty tough to find one in the 6 grand range that doesn't have some major problems.

Thanks everyone for your responses, it's been a lot of help. And if I don't buy this one, I'm sure I will find one at some point. Either way, thanks again :)
 
Oh you meant the DASH tachometer, as in the factory one. Yeah those are wrong. Don't worry about it. My bad.
 
In that case, like I said, perhaps there are people or clubs in your area that can help. Sorry, I'm a bit too far away to be of any assistance. I see you're up near Bowling Green, OH... Toledo and Cleveland. Perhaps someone will see this post and chime in. In the meantime.. do A LOT of reading of gnttype.org... Lot's of good info there.

I could say 6 grand is a good price, but then again, you always hear the luck stories of people buying them for 1k and their perfect... so it's a little luck of the draw. If I was paying 6k, I would want it to be halfway sound though... no need in buying other peoples junk.
 
Sounds scary. Too many inconsistencies with no confirmation of why they exist. I advise you to not buy it. There are more cars in the area.

Matter of fact, there is one on the board that looks 10x better than the one you described for just a wee bit more but still very reasonable. Check out Cars for Sale and the ad that states Grand National for $7000.
 
First of all, Car Fax sucks in my opinion. I just ran this thru my insurance claims database here at work and this car is a mess. Check out the mileage back in 1997 (138,858)


first loss- 9/24/97Collision
Impact Point: Front center
Company: UNITED SERVICES AUTOMOBILE ASSOC (USAA G Phone: 3053801390
Claim Number: 004278203000000002

--> VIN: 1G4GK4779GP449547 (PASS) Year: 1986 Mileage: 138858
Make: BUICK Model: REGAL


2nd loss- 12/5/97-Totalled and once again check out the miles!!!!!!! It was impounded my the Metro-Dade PD so Iw ould assume it was stolen for this loss!

Comprehensive
Impact Point: Total loss
Company: UNITED SERVICES AUTOMOBILE ASSOC (USAA G Phone: 5619636608
Claim Number: 004278203000000003

--> VIN: 1G4GK4779GP449547 (PASS) Year: 1986 Mileage: 140140
Make: BUICK Model: REGAL


3rd loss:2/11/98

Recovered Theft 02/11/1998 File Number: T9734201906--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Includes information provided by NICB
Location of Loss: FL MIAMI OCA: 602983T
Date of Theft: 12/05/1997 Condition: No apparent damage
Recovery Agency: METRO DADE PD
Classification: No apparent damage
Company: UNITED SERVICES AUTOMOBILE ASSOC (USAA G Phone: 8136324000
Address: PO BOX 31643
City: TAMPA State: FL Zip: 336313643
Claim Number: 004278203003001


4th loss: 1/26/99- 3rd theft of this car

Theft/Stripped
Actual Cash Value: 000000 Received: 000000 Appraised: 000000
Company: UNITED SERVICES AUTOMOBILE ASSOC (USAA G Phone: 8136324000
Address: PO BOX 31643
City: TAMPA State: FL Zip: 336313643
Claim Number: 004278203003001



I wouldn't pay $600 for this car nevermind $6K. It has been stolen 3 times and in another loss before that. The miles aren't even close to accurate. I hope this helps. As far as your bank, if you want one of these cars and can afford $200/month go to peoplefirst.com. They give loans on these cars for 5 years and are pretty good to deal with. I have my loan thru them. For a 5 year loan at $200/mont you can now spend up to probably $12K on a nice GN which gives you many more options. Good luck with whatever you chose.
 
Originally posted by turboscott
First of all, Car Fax sucks in my opinion. I just ran this thru my insurance claims database here at work and this car is a mess. Check out the mileage back in 1997 (138,858)


first loss- 9/24/97Collision
Impact Point: Front center
Company: UNITED SERVICES AUTOMOBILE ASSOC (USAA G Phone: 3053801390
Claim Number: 004278203000000002

--> VIN: 1G4GK4779GP449547 (PASS) Year: 1986 Mileage: 138858
Make: BUICK Model: REGAL


2nd loss- 12/5/97-Totalled and once again check out the miles!!!!!!! It was impounded my the Metro-Dade PD so Iw ould assume it was stolen for this loss!

Comprehensive
Impact Point: Total loss
Company: UNITED SERVICES AUTOMOBILE ASSOC (USAA G Phone: 5619636608
Claim Number: 004278203000000003

--> VIN: 1G4GK4779GP449547 (PASS) Year: 1986 Mileage: 140140
Make: BUICK Model: REGAL


3rd loss:2/11/98

Recovered Theft 02/11/1998 File Number: T9734201906--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Includes information provided by NICB
Location of Loss: FL MIAMI OCA: 602983T
Date of Theft: 12/05/1997 Condition: No apparent damage
Recovery Agency: METRO DADE PD
Classification: No apparent damage
Company: UNITED SERVICES AUTOMOBILE ASSOC (USAA G Phone: 8136324000
Address: PO BOX 31643
City: TAMPA State: FL Zip: 336313643
Claim Number: 004278203003001


4th loss: 1/26/99- 3rd theft of this car

Theft/Stripped
Actual Cash Value: 000000 Received: 000000 Appraised: 000000
Company: UNITED SERVICES AUTOMOBILE ASSOC (USAA G Phone: 8136324000
Address: PO BOX 31643
City: TAMPA State: FL Zip: 336313643
Claim Number: 004278203003001



I wouldn't pay $600 for this car nevermind $6K. It has been stolen 3 times and in another loss before that. The miles aren't even close to accurate. I hope this helps. As far as your bank, if you want one of these cars and can afford $200/month go to peoplefirst.com. They give loans on these cars for 5 years and are pretty good to deal with. I have my loan thru them. For a 5 year loan at $200/mont you can now spend up to probably $12K on a nice GN which gives you many more options. Good luck with whatever you chose.
Click to expand...

Turboscott is the man!
Over and over again I see you save people from making big mistakes. I think people should pay you $5 for your service as opposed to paying $15 to carfax and possibly not getting the right information! Nice to have a resource on the 'inside' for us enthusiasts!
 
I appreciate the kind words. I try to help people from being screwed whenever possible. I have to give Car Fax credit though. They have managed to develop a business to make a lot of money where they don't offer accurate info.
 
We've got a winner!!

NOT! That's absolutely amazing. That car has an incredibly 'shady' past and turboscott, you may have just saved a newcomer to our sport a lot of aggrevation and disappointment. I'm sure if Justin ever meets you IRL, he'll owe you a beer or two.

As for that car... Justin described it as a Grand National that looked pretty good, but even if the title and stuff is clear, there's just no way I'd get involved with that thing. No telling what else is stolen or comes from a bad history.

Good job!
 
Hey Justin if you see any cars in the Columbus Ohio area that you are interested in let me know and I can go take a look at them for you! :)
 
WOWWWWW!!! You guys just saved me from making a STUPID mistake... Carfax had none of this information that you gave me TubroScott. Thanks A LOT for letting me know this!!!!! I'm definitely going to stay away from that car now :) Boy do I feel stupid.....

Thanks :)
 
Not stupid....

The correct words would be lucky and resourceful, but not stupid. You had no way of knowing the history of this car. Heck, only way I know the history of my car is the fact that I've owned it most of it's life. :) Just count your lucky stars and keep searching. Good ol' Jeremy as well as others in your area can get ya a good one.
 
I love that This story had a happy ending and TurboScott saved Justin's pocketbook.

Justin, you should buy a GN from a reputable board member, there's plenty around.
 
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