New hot air project

[Turbo Riviera]

For all those interested...

My Riviera motor is out! I pulled it tonight. This motor is getting slapped into my '84 GN and it's going to get street driven for the next little while.

After something like 8 or 9 years or so, I will finally get to drive my '84 GN again! I think I blew it up in 1996 or 1997 and that was the last time the car ran... I took a chunk out of the #5 piston and parked it. Back in my turbo Buick "Learning" stage.

After that's done, I'm getting to work on a whole new drivetrain for the Rivi... trans, motor both.

For the project, I'll be shopping for an aftermarket carbe'd intake, a huge turbo, and soliciting help from anyone who knows how to beef up the famed GM TH-325-4L transmission (LOL it's a "performance trans" right?)

Anybody got a good flowing Carb'ed intake manifold?

We're going to make the IC guys jaws hit the floor with the handicapped car. (FWD, HEAVIER AND HOT AIR!)

 

[TRiv]

So what's the motor plan for the Riv? another turbo engine? carbed intake? As for the TH325-4L trans, have you ever talked with chris718 (ckperformance)? he seems to know about these transmissions and what to do, I hope to contact him when I'm ready to mod the trans in my project. Was at Norwalk raceway back in Sept. and saw a sandrail with basically a Riviera frame section welded to the back end and using a TH325-4L trans and intercooled motor running a mid 12 second pass. Tried to find the guy after run but he left so never found any other info, of course the sandrail was probably 1000 pounds-plus lighter than a Riviera, so just what the limit is on this trans is, still unknown.

While I do have a nice 85 T-Riviera, my main concern is to make this trans work in my mid engine project, it is really the only transaxle out there that will survive the turbo Buick v6, manuals of course are out, Porsche transaxles don't like GM v6 vibration, and the Corvette C5 transaxle is too long so I am using the TH325-4l. Here's a good one, I am mounting the engine/trans in the car backwards ( mass forward of rear axle CL) for weight distribution. Hope to have a running chassis by mid summer, but will not have any performance info on trans till later, so if you find or do any mods that work, let me know, I will do same.

I don't plan to go crazy on the Riviera, though did buy a 3.36 for it, plus an 87intercooler and shroud, will do the 87 ECM, electric fan, and electric intercooler fan (87 IC fan won't fit Riv motor mount), maybe the 87 intake but may just modify hot air manifold so all the OE accessories,etc., still can be used. To me, IC addition just makes sense, want to perk it up a bit on a budget, anyway keep us poste on th project process, interested to see the results!

 

[Turbo Riviera]

The plans are for a nice turbo motor. I plan to use the carbed intake because it beats the heck out of hacking up the stock manifold. Besides, we can get away with it with the riviera's turbo placement. It will flow better than any modified stock intake would too...

I have a really nice set of heads that are going to go into the mix. I'm going to redo the exhaust, put a bigger turbo on it, and maybe a roller valve train.

I already have modded my trans a bit. I put a shift kit in, a 10.5" TCI lockup converter, Raybestos race clutches etc. But it might need a little more than that to hold up to what I'm gonna give it. I rebuilt it myself a few years ago and it needs it again.

I have a spare 325-4L from a t-type riviera that I'm going to work with this time instead of the one I already have, and just play with it a little.

I'll update as stuff comes together.

 

[racemybuick]

are you going to have to use a different intake with the riv motor to the GN swap? I know the riv's had the turbo set practically behind the motor, and the Gn's had the turbo directly on top. Got pics of teh work so far and the progress?

Good luck man...I cant wait to hear about the final product!!!

john

 

[Turbo Riviera]

No the intake manifold is the same. I will be using my turbo mounting brackets from the regal though.

The only other things needed to swap from Riviera to GN is the oil pan, and pickup (see my post for the oil pickup gasket), and to plug the oil drain back hole in the back of the block on the Riviera.

I'll see if I can get some pics up for the progress.

 

[FWD turbo]

Hey Turbo Rivieria - Just in case you might need it sometime, don't lose the little rubber plug in the Riv intake manifold where the turbo oil drain back tube goes in for the GN set up. This part is no longer available from GM. I know this because I got the last one. So if you think you might want to go back to original some day, try to save the plug. The original in mine was so hard and dry that it got destroyed when I removed it to clean the manifold.

Also, what type of intake are you looking to use on the riv? Are you looking for an intake manifold from an old carb'd turbo or are you looking for a 4 bl intake from an N/A v6? I know a freind of mine has some of these parts. Let me know exactly what you are looking for and I will ask him if he has it and whether or not he is willing to part with it.

 

[Turbo Riviera]

My intake plug is LONG gone... It rotted away and blew off when I torched a head gasket a while back.

Moroso makes a rubber valve cover breather block off that fits perfectly in the hole and leaks less than the stock piece. That's what I'm using at the moment. It works well.

I'm looking for a N/A aftermarket carb intake that flows like a storm drain. Likely I'll go with an open plenum weiand or an older edelbrock. Then fab up a piece for the top to connect to the turbo.

 

[FWD turbo]

Thanks for the info on the intake plug. If I or my freind ever needs another one now I will know where to look. I take it you are planning on drilling holes in the intake and welding in your own bungs for the fuel injctors? Or are you going to switch to a throttle-body type injection set up like a holley commander?

As far as aftermarket intakes go, I know edelbrock still makes a "performer" manifold for the carb 231, but it is a dual plane and only good to 5500 rpm, so I doubt it is what you are looking for. Weiand still makes a single plane that is good too 6800 rpm, you can check it out by clicking HERE This one looks pretty promising, and I'm guessing you are looking for something like this? If this is it let me know.

I will ask my freind if he has anything along those lines. It will probably take him a few days to look through his parts and see what he has. I will let you know what he comes up with. Hopefully you won't have to spend the $$$ to get a new one.

 

[Turbo Riviera]

I do plan to drill new holes for injector bungs and run it SFI.

I figure I can start with a carb spacer and weld sheet metal onto it to make a plenum. Then hang a gm throttle body on the plenum and face it toward the firewall. Then all I have to do is make a pipe from the turbo to the throttle body, and WHAMO! I've got a killer flowing setup that was easy to make and didn't cost a fortune.

Let me know what he has.

 

[FWD turbo]

Sounds like a great idea. There are 3 intakes on ebay right now you might want to look at. I think one of them is exactly what you are looking for. Here they are.

A Weiand single plane air gap: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4535326603&category=34198

A Kenne Bell: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4534609051&category=34198

A Holley street dominator - this one has a clear picture of the part number: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7961372463&category=33695

Good luck, I will let you know what my freind has, but I think that Weiand on ebay is probably your best bet and I don't think my freind has one exactly like it.

 

[Turbo Riviera]

Thanks for the tip!

 

[cool 84]

Good luck on the project. It will be nice to have another fast hotair. What's traction like with FWD on street tires with the kind of torque these engines make?

 

[Turbo Riviera]

non existent with street tires...

As a stock engine it would burn the tires most of the way through first and bark them into second.

Before I made some mods, it would actually spin slicks on the 1-2 shift. Now it only has minor traction problems at the line on slicks. It's not too bad, but a bit inconsistent still. I've got to work on that still.

As of right now, there is 170 pounds of ballast under the front bumper of the car, custom made adjustable front shocks, and a home made locking differential,and slicks to aid traction. It has run a best of a 1.86 60 foot time.

 

[cool 84]

Does a stiff suspension help traction with FWD? 1.8 60' isn't that bad. I wonder what it's going to be like with the extra power. Maybe a little turbo lag wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[Turbo Riviera]

I have my front shocks set stiff on the upward motion, and loose on the downward motion. You can go to far with stiffening up the upward swing. It will wheel hop if you go too far. Been there done that.

I'm running a 10.5" lockup converter now, and the stock turbo spins up like crazy... I agree that a bigger turbo and the same converter would be a better situation by creating a bit more lag.

It's still kind of nice to have the car come out of the hole fast though. It's easier to catch a light that way.

 

[FWD turbo]

Originally posted by cool 84
Good luck on the project. It will be nice to have another fast hotair. What's traction like with FWD on street tires with the kind of torque these engines make?

Like the man said. Nonexistent. I've got a five speed stick and 1st gear is absolutely useless. That's with 225/40/17 Nitto extreme ZR street tires. People say they are supposed to be really good tires, but frankly I am unimpressed. Of course I am only beginning to deal with trying to get the car to hook up, so we will see how much improvement I can get. I'll be shocked if I can get a 1.8 60' time like turbo riviera.

 

[FWD turbo]

Originally posted by Turbo Riviera

Let me know what he has.

I spoke with my freind today, and although he does have a couple of 4 bl intakes, he doesn't have anything that would flow anywhere near what you need. Sorry, I thought we might be able to help you out. Good luck on Ebay!

 

[racemybuick]

damn...I had the 4bbl edlebrock performer intake just a couple months ago!!! i sold it for 200 (polished), because I sold my 3.8 N/A car....Had a very mint 87 Limited with the 3.8 in it...Car was pristine!!! I miss it....but it was slow...I got the intake for it, a 4bbl 650 cfm carb, and I was looking for headers, and a guy offered me 3500 for the car....DING DING DING DING!!! I sold it!

Sorry, I wish i still had it now!

lol

John

 

[Turbo Riviera]

No worries, I really would like the open plenum Weiand anyway. The edelbrok has a few accessory holes that would interfere with the injector bungs and would require additional grinding.

 

[tony1917]

Scott,
I put the QAs' in up-side down and set them in in the middle adjustment. Launch at 3500 at 1 psi of boost.Front end hardly moves with no wheel hop.1.90 60' That was the 3rd pass with new combo.I'm sure we will improve some with adjustments,air bags,weight adjustments,tire pressure,etc.I'm glad to hear your bringing the Riviera out again.It truly is "Goning Fast with Class"

Tony

DF/SA NHRA Record Holder 2000-2003
1983 T-Type Riviera
231 Carbbed Turbo