Newbie: where to begin?

[17jthomas]

What's up guys my name is Cameron I'm 16, and just purchased an 85 T-Type a few weeks ago. The car has been sitting since 1998(17 years), and I got it for what I feel like was a very good price. The car is in fair condition, body in overall pretty good shape considering how long it's been sitting. The car was mostly complete, other than missing the computer, and I bought one from another 85 to install on the car. So far I've got it up on our lift, drained the oil(no water or anything), put a socket and ratchet on the balancer bolt just to make sure the motor wasn't stuck, and it spins over as it should. Dropped the tank to clean it out and out in some fresh gas. I'll be the first to say I don't know much about these cars, and I was wondering if anyone knew anything else I should go over or check while I'm into it. Just for a little history, the car was parked when the owner went to prison in '98, and the computer was probably robbed for the previous owners sons '85 GN. I would like to see if this car is going to run, but want to make sure I cover all the bases before I try to fire it up. Any help is appreciated and I apologize for the novel. Thanks in advance!
-Cameron

 

[2QUICK2B6]

buy another one runing

 

[O SO LO]

This may help you get started... there is a link at the bottom also!

NO-START TEST
Below is a series of tests to troubleshoot a 'no-start' condition. (I basically reprinted this from a GM troubleshooting flowchart, hopefully it will be of some help!)

Below are links to repair manual pictures to reference from:

ECM Plug
Sensor Plugs

You'll need to get at the ECM and the cam & crank sensors to do some voltage tests. If you have a NEEDLE type voltmeter, it may work better for these tests, as it will visibly "swing" when the sensor switches open & close (IF they're working okay!)

Here goes:

First, test your meter and ground! (see ECM Plug) Check connection A-6, "ign, ECM fuse" for 12 volts. (for ALL tests, BE SURE the negative lead of the voltmeter is connected to a GOOD GROUND!)

#1- (see ECM Plug) With the key off, disconnect the ECM A-B connector. With the positive lead of the voltmeter, probe the B-5 connection (highlighted yellow, this is the crank sensor signal) Crank the engine and watch the meter...you should have varying voltage from 1 to 7 volts.
If NOT okay, proceed to #2.
If you ARE seeing correct voltage, your cam & crank sensors are okay, and your coil and/or ignition module may be the problem! You need to loosen the coilpack, and check the BLUE wire for 12 volts, key on. If it DOES have 12 volts, then the problem is likely the ignition module.

#2- now probe the A-11 connection... (highlighted green, this is the cam sensor signal). Crank the engine...you should have varying voltage from 1 to 9 volts.
If it IS okay, THE CAM SENSOR IS FINE, AND YOU ONLY NEED TO TEST THE CRANK SENSOR IN ALL FURTHER TESTS!
If it's NOT okay, there's no cam sensor signal!

Plug the ECM connector back in, and head for the sensors!

#3 (see "Sensor Plug") Unplug the cam sensor plug. Turn the key "ON" ...On the MODULE SIDE of the plug, probe the "A" wire for voltage, after which probe the "B" wire for voltage. You should have between 5 and 11 volts on BOTH wires.
If you ARE seeing correct voltage, THEN: with the negative lead of the voltmeter, probe the "C" wire, and with the positive lead probe the "A" wire. You should have between 5 and 11 volts. Note the results, then REPEAT THIS TEST WITH THE CRANK SENSOR PLUG!

If ANY of the sensor plug tests FAILED, you have a probably ignition module problem...
If ALL the sensor plug tests PASSED, then PLUG IN the sensor plugs, and proceed:

#4. Test the cam sensor: Probe the "B" wire of the cam sensor, then crank the engine and watch the meter. You SHOULD have varying voltage between 1/2 and 9 volts. REPEAT THIS TEST WITH THE CRANK SENSOR!

If either sensor fails this test, then it's possible that sensor is bad! If they PASS this test, it's likely the ignition module, or the connections TO the ignition module are bad)

Hope this makes sense!



http://www.gnttype.org/maint/basics.html

 

[Wahoo]

Read all the stickies you can, these cars, not just hot airs but all these turbo buicks can be finicky.

 

[buddy]

buy another one runing

Not very nice

 

[buddy]

buy another one runing

And you spelled running wrong.

 

[17jthomas]

Thanks for the help so far everyone. And yes I have done quite a bit of research and I'm anxious to get out to the shop to get some more work done. 10 inches of snow and below zero temp's are not what we are used to in Kentucky. Keep the info/advice coming guys, I'm gonna need all of it I can get. Thanks again!

 

[turbonut85]

Might consider getting a new fuel pump while you have the tank out....cheap insurance.

 

[17jthomas]

Yes I was going to do that for sure. Atleast keep me from having to drop the tank again for awhile. Also noticed a few broke/missing vacuum lines on top of the engine I'll have to replace.

 

[novaderrik]

i know you already got an 85 ecm for it, but i would highly recommend an 87 ecm ($35-$50 at any junkyard since they used it in a bunch of fwd cars in the late 80's) and a custom chip from TurboTweak..

 

[17jthomas]

That doesn't sound like a bad idea. I wasn't aware that an 87 ECM would work. What fwd cars had the same ECM?

 

[Wahoo]

That doesn't sound like a bad idea. I wasn't aware that an 87 ECM would work. What fwd cars had the same ECM?

Look in the parts for sale section, there is a guy on here selling them.

 

[Jerryl]

What are your goals and budget?
My advice . . . Read, read, and go back and read some more.
Find someone in your area that knows these cars and buy a few cokes and burgers. lol

86-87 ecm is a great idea, but hold off with the install untill the car is running. Don't add more variables untill it runs.
Don't assume and verify everything, and i mean EVERYTHING.

 

[17jthomas]

Short term goal is just for a running/ driving car that I can jump in and go now and then. Long term goal is to restore the entire car, but I don't have the time or money for that at the moment. We haven't even tried to fire it yet, going to pick up a new battery, fuel pump, fuel filter, air filter, change the oil, and a few other things before we even try to turn the key.

 

[Jerryl]

I would suggest priming the engine with a gage to know where you are at as far as oil pressure . . . . But that really depends on your comfort level.

Post some good quality pics of the car and engine bay.

 

[17jthomas]

This is the only pic I have right now. I should be able to get some more pics over the weekend

 

[novaderrik]

That doesn't sound like a bad idea. I wasn't aware that an 87 ECM would work. What fwd cars had the same ECM?

any GM fwd car built in 86 and 87 (maybe even 88 and 89 for all i know) that had the 3.8 V6 used the same ecm. www.car-part.com shows thousands of them all over the country for $30 or so... just to keep it simple, i looked up an 87 Regal with the turbocharged 3.8 engine and sorted by distance.. the funny part is that if you sort by price, some people are asking $500 for this part just because they know they were used in a GN and there will be a sucker or two out there that thinks they need to special GN part for their GN...

it is insanely easy to swap in: order up the TurboTweak chip ($87) and put that in it... take the little chip out of your stock ecm and put that in it... plug it in and start the car to make sure it works, then tuck it back in behind the kick panel... literally a 10 minute swap..

 

[standupjskiguy]

If I remember right, the 86-87 ECM is not a direct swap. I think it has to do with the MAF sensor.
I'm sure there is more specific info on this site.
I agree that you should keep it simple for now and don't start swapping stuff unless you know it is for an 85.
You may have old gas in the fuel rails. Maybe you have to figure a way to flush them out.

 

[novaderrik]

If I remember right, the 86-87 ECM is not a direct swap. I think it has to do with the MAF sensor.
I'm sure there is more specific info on this site.
I agree that you should keep it simple for now and don't start swapping stuff unless you know it is for an 85.
You may have old gas in the fuel rails. Maybe you have to figure a way to flush them out.

i'm running the stock 84 MAF with my 87 ecm, and it works perfect... but i did specify that i was running it when i ordered my TT chip..

 

[cwmccray]

I am running a 87 Mass Air in my T Type with a 85 computer. My 85 Mass Air died, so I replaced it with a 87. So I am convinced that the conversion can be done regardless. TT chips are awesome. My next thing is to add 55lb injectors, 87 modded ECM and TT chip...