Odd engine build idea ?????

[Dave Burns]

OK, say a guy wants to build a carb'd v6. I mean like a high compression, big huge cam, 850 cfm or shoot how about a dominator even ? Maybe even a little spray too. I got a 3.8 and a 4.1 layin here, as well as a new crank. Need heads though. Have heard about some later production heads that flow like stg 2's. Will or can they bolt up any kinda single plane carb intake ? Was talking to a buddy tonight and he laughed at me for even thinking about it. Told me I would be stupid slow with it, and wasting my time. But admitted IF I could get it to run even 12's it would definately be an attention getter. And that got me thinking..... Can it be done ?

I have kinda looked for info on Dotsons non-turbo regal. I know that car is crazy light, but it runs 9's right ? SOOOOOOOOOOOOO........

How would a guy do it ? I want something that looks stupid simple(carb./dist.). Like just a little 6 with your normal(OLD) plug wires, front cover, carb, and headers. Just small in the engine compartment. And just to toss out numbers lets say ...............

400hp off the bottle,
2700# car,
th-400 with what a 4000 stall,
28x9 slicks
and what ?????? 4.56 gears.

I got all that stuff laying around.


What do you all think ?????????????

 

[fuzzyGN]

My build is almost complete and very similar to what you suggested. I went with a 4.1L block with aluminum heads to get the flow numbers and a HUGE solid roller. Also has about 13:1 compression, single plane intake, partially hard filled water jacket ... the list goes on. My car will be 2400 ponds race weight with a 5200 stall and 4.30 gears. The tires are really short though. I am expecting somewhere in the 11's on motor but not sure exactly how fast. You have to really want this project because it was STUPID expensive. I got smokin good deals on everything (example $250 for heads and valve covers) and it was still North of $7K to build. The biggest advantage is the engine weight. It will be around 275 pounds from carb to pan. That is about 300 pounds lighter than a SBC. It will be an attention getter for sure. Looks simple enough with the carb and dizzy (as you call it :smile but crank it up and it will scare small children and some adults. It won't be cheap but it will be really cool.

 

[slimtastic]

OK, say a guy wants to build a carb'd v6. I mean like a high compression, big huge cam, 850 cfm or shoot how about a dominator even ? Maybe even a little spray too. I got a 3.8 and a 4.1 layin here, as well as a new crank. Need heads though. Have heard about some later production heads that flow like stg 2's. Will or can they bolt up any kinda single plane carb intake ? Was talking to a buddy tonight and he laughed at me for even thinking about it. Told me I would be stupid slow with it, and wasting my time. But admitted IF I could get it to run even 12's it would definately be an attention getter. And that got me thinking..... Can it be done ?

I have kinda looked for info on Dotsons non-turbo regal. I know that car is crazy light, but it runs 9's right ? SOOOOOOOOOOOOO........

How would a guy do it ? I want something that looks stupid simple(carb./dist.). Like just a little 6 with your normal(OLD) plug wires, front cover, carb, and headers. Just small in the engine compartment. And just to toss out numbers lets say ...............

400hp off the bottle,
2700# car,
th-400 with what a 4000 stall,
28x9 slicks
and what ?????? 4.56 gears.

I got all that stuff laying around.


What do you all think ?????????????

well you dont need 400 hp to run 12s with 2700 lbs of weight....300 at the motor will do that.

but you will need a super high flowing cylinder head to be able to push that kinda power and at least 10/1 compression minimum. also i prolly wouldnt do a 400 as they suck alot of power to turn over. keep with a 200r4 and do a set of 4.11 gears. youll also need to spin rather high (6500 plus) and have a cam thats gonna put the power up there

 

[fuzzyGN]

I agree. For 300HP is isn't all that hard but compression is a must. I think a set of fully ported iron heads would get you there. In my car now I have a stock compression 4.1L with mildly ported irons and a bigish Postons cam. It has a single plane but it ran better with the dual. I shift at about 6500. It is in a car that is not traction limited, about the same weight as yours, and it runs mid 14's at 5000 foot elevation. That is easy high 13's already at sea level. It equates to about 180HP or low to mid 200's at sea level. I would bump the compression to 10.5 or so and a cam that is around 235 @ .050 or more. Use a 6" rod which will help with quench also. If going with a 4.1L it may be less expensive to just cough up the dough and get custom pistons to match exactly what you need and use stock rods instead. Tickle it with a 100 shot and easy mid 12's withut breaking a sweat. Do a TH-350 or TH-200-4R. The 400 is way overkill and will rob an aditional 25 or more HP. This can be done on a much more reasonable budget too. My build was slated to get as much N/A HP as possible with a stock block thus quite expensive.

 

[ek02]

I have a 4.1 with a forged stroker crank, forged H-beam rods, Champion heads, all ARP studs and bolts, custom comp hydraulic roller with noisy race lifters, 228 int, 232 ex and .525 lift with 1.65 roller rockers, roller billet chain, custom JE pistons and 1/16 rings ( the expensive part of the build ), 9.5 compression ( could have gone 10.00 to 1 up to 11.00 to 1 with the aluminum heads easily, but kept it low with .030 Cometic gaskets so it could be turboed with .080 gaskets), a ported Kenne bell intake and a 600 CFM Edelbrock carb, and custom 3 into 1 headers. I have a 2800 RPM converter with a Turbo 350. Ford 8" rear with Detroit Locker and Curry axles, 3.80 gears.It has a 175 shot of nitrous. It ran 7.84 @ 95 mph in the 1/8 th on a 125 shot in a 3000 lb Toyota truck. I have not run it on the strip with the 175 shot yet, but with a progressive nitrous controller it should get close to a 7.60. It has a lot of torque with the stroker. It is traction challenged with MT street radials. The 8" rear is the weak point. With slicks this combo should go mid elevens in the 1/4. It ain't cheap to build, but it sure is fun.

 

[BlownV6]

Use a stage 2 complete heads , cam , valve train & manifold setup (like Dotsons) should be easily capable of 500+ HP on motor. I used to run a dominator carb on mine in my dragster and went 7.90 @ 167 mph at 1350#
I could fix you up with everything you need. Mike

 

[lgonzalez_1986]

high compressed, forced inducted? or naturally aspirated?

 

[Dave Burns]

Thanks for the ideas yall. I am just trying how to get my melon wrapped around this deal now. Initial thoughts were full on stg. 2 top half, and pistons to make a boatload of compression. Now with the info yall got going here now, I need a bit to retrain the brain. Please feel free to post anymore ideas yall may have. I am listening.

 

[ek02]

Back in the early 80's, Kenne Bell did a build up from stock to an all out 276" stroker motor in a 79 Skyhawk that weighed 2850 lbs. It was to show what to expect from each modification from the parts they sold. They went from 16.60 @ 74.1 mph and 95 hp all the way to 10.30 @ 129 mph and 493 HP. They ended up with a Stage 2 setup with 13-1 and a radical Crane billet cam, and a 750 cfm Holley on an Edelbrock manifold. A Stage 2 motor on nitrous would be the ideal way to go, but parts are hard to come by compared to a stock block build. I have had every V-6 from an odd fire 3.8 to the stroked 4.1. A Stage 2 would be the ultimate if you can get an off center block to use an even fire crank. The odd fire on center Stage 2 would shake your teeth out on the street.

 

[pajo]

building a high comp. 4.1 liter sounds like fun if moola is no object..

 

[Dave Burns]

So now I am getting emails and info movin on this now. It is looking more and more like I am gonna have to change project directions. This is gettin damn interesting all of a sudden. Who'da thunk a night of beer drinkin in the garage, and a smart A$$ anti-Buick, "it'll never do it" comment could get me all jacked up.

Mike (blownv6) PM headin your way in just a few............


OH YEA............... anyone have any info to share on high compression pistons they will share. Where, who, etc. etc. ............

 

[Dave Burns]

Use a stage 2 complete heads , cam , valve train & manifold setup (like Dotsons) should be easily capable of 500+ HP on motor. I used to run a dominator carb on mine in my dragster and went 7.90 @ 167 mph at 1350#
I could fix you up with everything you need. Mike

PM sent to ya Mike. Thanks.

 

[Dave Burns]

OK so now this is just getting outa hand haha. Seems I have found a set of heads, valve covers, rockers, and matching intake. The price seemed fair to me so I jumped in. Over my head I might add haha. Now I need to move into crank, rod, and piston ideas. Anyone have ideas to toss around ??

Mike, sent another PM.

Thanks all in advance............

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Just Saying to those who posted here,



Thank You for Pointing out that COMPRESSION is the key to NA power.

COMPRESSION

B4B Boys pay attention.

A.j.

 

[Dave Burns]

OK im back........kinda. To those that I need to respond to in regards to parts, and phone calls I need to make I apologize. My oldest son graduated high school today and we had a reception at our home here. To say the least, gettin' ready for that, and getting through it today, has had me busier than a butt kickin' here.

Anywayssssss, Gotta break down the rest of the party remnants tomorrow and after that I will be back into this NA v6 part of my brain full throttle. Of course it never left completely haha, but yall get me drift I hope. Thanks

 

[novaderrik]

a 600cfm carb will flow plenty of air for 400hp, so there is no need for a Dominator or even an 850.

 

[forcefed86]

IMHO why build a 1980's motor NA? The doller per HP ratio is horrible. The current 4.3 vortec motors will handle tons of power, are dirt cheap, and have great heads. Shave the heads, run a MLS HG and spray the crap out of it with a huge cam. You'll be miles ahead in total cost. Or buy an factory toyota 2jzge straight 6 for $400-500, do nothing to it and spray it with 400+ worth of nitrous.

Just at thought... Not saying your build wouldn't be nice. I love me the sound of some high compression v6's.

 

[notacarlo]

IMHO why build a 1980's motor NA? The doller per HP ratio is horrible. The current 4.3 vortec motors will handle tons of power, are dirt cheap, and have great heads. Shave the heads, run a MLS HG and spray the crap out of it with a huge cam. You'll be miles ahead in total cost. Or buy an factory toyota 2jzge straight 6 for $400-500, do nothing to it and spray it with 400+ worth of nitrous.

Just at thought... Not saying your build wouldn't be nice. I love me the sound of some high compression v6's.

I think the desire here is to build a BUICK NA V6. I have always wanted to build a 13K RPM Buick sixxer. Tree's go by faster with money, but desire is 90% of that equation. I think a cammed out 87 limited in full street trim would be one hell of a cool car.

 

[GARY HARVEY]

For that kind of money, I'd build a 383" SBC and never look back... less headache's & way more reliability. Just so happens I've got one on the floor.

 

[Dave Burns]

OK one small computer meltdown and I am back. Stupid dumb piece of crap black box things we rely on anyways. "Rant off now".

Update: Car is back home and fitting frame pads and building trans crossmember now are heading the list. I must just be a glutton for punishment for doing this deal, I don't know. I have the clip mocked back on the car now. Figured I would need them there to start headers and such. Also wanna see just how many ACRES of room I am gonna have under there haha. After motor/ trans mock up it can all come back apart to start body/paint work. That won't take too long as the plans just to give it a cheap quickie job. This one is just a toy.

For those that asked "why?"... well .... because Im a Buick guy. Same ole' story here, go to the races see and see a Buick. Well, with the hood opened I wanna see a Buick engine. Thats all. When I want to build a chevy motor, I will stick it in our 67' Chevelle we have sitting here waiting its turn. Thats not to say I hate everything else cause I don't. Just a bit of a purist. Well and of course my buddy telling me it couldn't be done, that plays into the deal big time. So anywaysssss ............ back to the top.

Love hearing your ideas. Mike, need to talk to you again about crank and rods. Will email you soon.