oki am going to change a timing chain for the first time...

[arista5]

Hey all.

I have an issue with my timing chain, appears to have jumped a few teeth and needs replacement. I have never gone this far into the motor and decided since the repair shop i want to use is to far from me and cant fit me in for a while, i will have to venture this on my own. I am lucky enough to have some local guys in my area (friends) who are into the TB's and will be assisting me. however i have read the instructions on gnttype.org and want to read some things from people who have done this job themselves i understand the valves might have bent (crossing fingers that since the motor is bone stock inside even original valve springs with 121k on them that the internals werent hurt). But as i was saying if anyone has any tips or hints to get this done smoothly they will be greatly appreciated. I also am wanting to try this because well i am proud of being able to say i have done somthing myself or myself and friends as a team was able to fix the issue at hand. and a special thanks to one of my friends lending me a compressor and impact tool for bolt removal (i will be replacing by hand)

what will i need?
also how can i check the proper position for the cam when i know it's not in the correct spot where it stands?
any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.

and i was going to go with a stock replacment chain, but am debating a double roller as the cost is within a dinner for 2 @ mickey d's

other than that i am up for any and all suggestions of what tools and supplies i need.

thanks guy's

 

[87gn-newbee]

Just got done doing this last weekend. I posted all the parts need with part # for everything. I printed out the same directions from gnttype.org on timing chain replacement and type in cam sensor and it has instructions on setting procedure. It took me and a buddy a weekend only working about 5 hrs a day. Most time spent scaping old gasket but I went with new HV front cover, water pump and so on so it wasn't that bad.
Do a search on my name, it was about 2 weeks ago it has everything you need. If you need some help let me know.
Dan

 

[arista5]

did you bend any valves?

 

[87gn-newbee]

nope

 

[arista5]

where did you get the HV cover?

 

[Russ Merritt]

I wouldn't worry bout the valves too much. I just rebuilt a kids engine and everyone of the valves had hit the pistons. He had got the car for nothing and replaced the timing chain. Then drove it for 6 months, and he drives like an animal! I did a compression test before we took it out and it was fine. When I cleaned the pistons they all had 2 little indents on them where they had hit. To test before you do the chain, take off the rocker arms and fill each cylinder with compressed air. Listen at the throttlebody and exhaust housing for escaping air. If you hear any, tap on the end of the valve with a rubber hammer to knock off any carbon. It should seal up. Good luck, have fun!

 

[Turbo Brian]

You must also change the oil pan gasket when doing the timing cover. When you pull the timing cover, there is no way that you can save the oil pan gasket and not have leaks. The best plan is to get a cork gasket from one of the vendors on this board to prevent unnecessary leaks.

 

[87gn-newbee]

Silver Seal 1-800-521-0580
yup get all new gaskets

 

[BJM]

I did my cover this spring. It took me about 18 hours all told. I used the GHTTYPE instructions as a checklist. Make sure you change the water pump and take the opportunity to change the oil pump cover gasket, I left it alone and now I regret it.

As far as the oil pan gasket goes, its definitely not a guaranteed write-off. Mine is the original rubber gasket and it didn't rip at all. I used dental floss to tie it carefully to the three oil pan holes and snipped the floss and pulled it out once the cover was back on.

Get a new water pump, steel timing chain, timing chain damper and spring, front seal with a gasket set.

In my case it took a alot of time to clean all the slime off the cover. The front seal was blowing stuff all over before the repair.

 

[stickybones]

If you get a new front cover, like the one from Silver Seal, make sure that extra little set screw plug in the top by the cam sensor hole is loctited in. Mine wasn't and after a few years of driving, it worked its way free and fell into the front cover. Busted the timing chain and wrecked havoc with my motor. To make a long story short, my motor is now being rebuilt by Jack Merkel.

 

[arista5]

Originally posted by BJM
I did my cover this spring. It took me about 18 hours all told. I used the GHTTYPE instructions as a checklist. Make sure you change the water pump and take the opportunity to change the oil pump cover gasket, I left it alone and now I regret it.

what/where is that located and does it come with the timing seal kit?

and here is what i picked up today

Cloyes timing chain
Cloyes Cam button and spring
Cloyes tensioner
Felpro timing gasket kit
Airtex Waterpump
Oil/filter/antifreeze

and ordered from kirbans the cork gasket and neo front seal

any other things while it's still early in the week to recommend?

 

[87gn-newbee]

If you get the new front cover from SS it comes with new front seal. It is machined so seal is on the front of the cover stock cover isn't.

I guess I'll take a look at that plug tomorrow.
Dan

 

[Lugnut28]

If you are going to use you existing cover you can knock ou the back of the front seal cavity, remove the 3 impressions that held the back in and put in a new seal like in the tail of a transmission instead of that rope replacement. You also want to check your oil pump and check the wear on the bottom of the cavity where the oil gears rub. If its bad now is the time to put a new wear plate in.

 

[BJM]

My felpro gasket set came with the oil pump cover gasket. Its the wispy thin paper one. GNTTYPE has pictures of front covers including an exploded view with the oil pump sticking out.

 

[tc86gn]

Also if that chain is a double roller, Ditch the tensioner.

 

[arista5]

ok now for my last question (yeah right) where and which gasket sealer (blue or black RTV) do i use and how much and when if any at all (other than blue on the waterpump)

thanks

 

[BJM]

Follow the instructions that come with the gaskets. You won't be using anything on the gaskets themselves. Some of the longer bolts pass through the pump and cover into the engine water jacket and those will need some RTV to seal the threads. Both the water pump gasket and the front cover gasket went on dry.

What makes you think the timing chain has skipped?

 

[arista5]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59809

for reasons mentioned in the above thread, plus the car just plain died, and that was it, i have all symptoms of a bad chain so i am going to just change it, and the rod bearings simply b/c they are right there when i take off the pan.

 

[salvageV6]

Ditch the double roller.

Look at some rod bearings but don't touch them.

Just my .02.

Don't forget new hoses for the water pump area. Little S one will need to be cut off most likely.

I used thin gasket cement to hold the thin gaskets to one surface nothing on the other one.

No RTV excepting the oil pan cork gasket to the pan itself. Skim coat to tack it down there. Nothing on the block surface after it dried overnight.

 

[lyonsd]

Originally posted by Turbo Brian
You must also change the oil pan gasket when doing the timing cover. When you pull the timing cover, there is no way that you can save the oil pan gasket and not have leaks.

So that that mean the oil pan will have to be removed? If that's the case, then it would sound like a good time to install a block girdle and/or a higher capacity oil pan.

Originally posted by BJM
Get a new water pump

So what is the preferred water pump for these cars? Edelbrock? The Autozone/Pep Boys Special? Flow Kooler? Weiand? Milodon?