Original engine a good candidate for a stroker?

[LIL6cyl]

Hey all, I would like a few opinions on this block. It is my original block I had rebuilt 19 or so years ago. It was a stock .030 over rebuild with cast pistons. I wiped some lifters after 2500ish miles. I pulled engine and installed an RPE built engine with Hyper pistons. I'm looking to build a spare stroker long block for if and when the one in the car goes. Zero rust in cylinders and turns over. I did see a little scuffing, but you can not feel it with a fingernail, or feel it in any way. Do you think it is worth trying to use this block?

B

 

[Chuck Leeper]

At .030 over as it is now, I'd decide on its use after a thorough tear down and dimension check.
Forged pistons are the route I'd go.
In any case, it has to be honed to clean up. Will a hone job put the piston to wall too loose?
If it has to go .040 over, I'd be sure to sonic test it before spending a lot of $.

 

[LIL6cyl]

Thanks Chuck! That's what I was looking for in regards if it was worth it or not. The plan is to go full forged with a set of new GN1 aluminum or ported irons. I will spec the cam to combo. I just didn't want to waist time and $. In my opinion it would be cool to have the original block in the car though.

 

[Reggie West]

Find a used block that has not been bored. You can run a 3.810 piston with lots of wall thickness left. You will need to clearance the block to keep the rods from hitting the block, your machinist can do that.

Get your order in for a good roller cam now, the wait is a long one IF you can find it. Or you can use the 212/212 in your signature that will make the power too.

 

[LIL6cyl]

I have a possible line on a block and cam, just trying to spend effectively! LOL. I have 1st gen GN1's in the car now so looking to replace those too... Reliable street beast is what I want.

 

[Reggie West]

I have a possible line on a block and cam, just trying to spend effectively! LOL. I have 1st gen GN1's in the car now so looking to replace those too... Reliable street beast is what I want.

Use the GN1s they will work pretty well unless you are going for 800 Hp at the wheels. Then maybe a port, polish, and cam.

 

[LIL6cyl]

Use the GN1s they will work pretty well unless you are going for 800 Hp at the wheels. Then maybe a port, polish, and cam.

Do you see any reason to replace? I know the 1st gen's had cracking issues.

 

[Reggie West]

Do you see any reason to replace? I know the 1st gen's had cracking issues.

They would have cracked by now if they were one of the bad batch. Up to you but a new set of ported and polished GN1s fully assembled will set you back $4000

 

[Reggie West]

They would have cracked by now if they were one of the bad batch. Up to you but a new set of ported and polished GN1s fully assembled will set you back $4000

The better question is what is the HP goal for the build?

 

[750H.P.V6]

Do you see any reason to replace? I know the 1st gen's had cracking issues.

The early versions of Champion GN1's are problematic and do have cracking issues. If they are in good shape and don't need a lot of rework you could reuse them however I wouldn't invest money into porting them etc. If you can find a newer set, the castings and machine work are much better and will prove to be more reliable at higher H.P. levels. If you're looking to buy used heads the newer castings are easy to identify as the logo was relocated to the end of the head rather than the side between the spark plugs.

Neal

 

[LIL6cyl]

The better question is what is the HP goal for the build?

600ish to the tires. I know this can be achieved easily with ported irons. This will be built for very spirited street driving. The main thing I'm looking for is reliability. I will have Hartline retune once a combo is ironed out and build is underway. As far as the car all supporting mods have been completed So it will mainly come down to the long block. Any pointers is greatly appreciated! Or even a lead to an already built combo. (even better)

 

[Reggie West]

600ish to the tires. I know this can be achieved easily with ported irons. This will be built for very spirited street driving. The main thing I'm looking for is reliability. I will have Hartline retune once a combo is ironed out and build is underway. As far as the car all supporting mods have been completed So it will mainly come down to the long block. Any pointers is greatly appreciated! Or even a lead to an already built combo. (even better)

600ish to the wheels is 750 at the motor.

I would suggest a stock block with a girdle. Forged rotating assembly. 9 to 1 CR maybe 9.5.

Use the heads you have for a max port and polish, new valves and seats. LS1 beehive springs.

You will need a turbo to make 750 so a 67 series is needed.

Fuel, you can go with pump gas and alky or switch to E85 your call. Either way you are buying injectors for sure.

You are right about the tune, Cal will help you out with that so no need to change anything from a hardware perspective.

I'm doing a similar build for someone now and it takes a while to get it all together but your goals are very attainable.

Hit me up if you have any questions.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

and cam

A used cam?
Flat tappet or roller?

 

[LIL6cyl]

A used cam?
Flat tappet

Planning on a new roller. Have a 212-212 roller in the car now.

 

[Sweet6]

Planning on a new roller. Have a 212-212 roller in the car now.

Start looking now. There aren't any new rollers on the shelves anywhere that I know of.

 

[dynoman]

Dave Husek had a short block for sale a couple of weeks ago and probably still has it . Give him a call
516-860-5287

 

[TIMINATOR]

1.65 rockers will give u .537 lift on the Comp 212 roller, if I remember correctly. Block rock the bottom of the cylinders, up 1 1.5" or 2", it wont affect cooling (the fire is out at about 3/4" or so down the bore,) but it increases the cylinder wall rigidity tremendously, and dampens harmonics too, especially with bigger bores. Do it before the bore or hone. Also, I prefer to glass bead or acid etch the walls up to just above where the "rock" stops.
If you are squeemish about cooling on the street, go look at a 351 ford windsor, the inside of the water jackets stop about an inch and a quarter above the bottom of the of the cylinder. We have filled street motors to an inch and 3/4 below the deck. The block is mainly a water distribution manifold for the heads. We have a street, BIG NITROUS 440 mopar filled to have water only in the top 7/8" of the bottom of the deck. The jury is still out on how well thats going to work, as its only been running a bit over 2 years now...
TIMINATOR

P.S. on the 440, we clayed where the water outlet from the pump hole is to make a passage to above the rock. Then cleaned it out when the filler hardened.

 

[SCOOBY DOO]

The more you bore these blocks, the closer you get to the water jackets. I had a .030 over used short block I used for racing for several years. I cracked three different cylinders. The first two times I resleeved it. The third time it cracked right up to the deck and I tosssed the block and kept the internals. Keep in mind I raced every weekend, which isn't the norm. At the end of the day, keep as close to standard bore as possible.

 

[hensleyt]

I would keep as a 3.8 and save it for a OE if you decide to quit beating on it in the future. I pulled a horse trailer with a 360 ford that I Ball honed that was worse than that, and it ran 60 K tell my uncle traded me out of it. Yes I would save it, Would I build a Stroker No. Good blocks are getting a little harder to find. and I was told don't bother to stroking a 3.8 but a 4.1 will respond to the extra stroke better. but a 4.1 is even harder to find.
There are lots of stroker 3.8 but I bet most are .020 not .030, hard to believe .005 wall thickness can make a difference

 

[TIMINATOR]

I dont think you should ball hone anything! It makes the cylinder bores hourglass shaped. Big at the top and bottom and small in the middle, as the balls get released at the ends of the cylinders, and forced back into it.
4 or 5 strokes are enough to do that!
To prove it to my non believing customers, I have them bring in a ball "honed" block and put it in the Sunnen 616. I clean oil from the cylinder, then "blue" it with gun "insta blue".
A light 4 stroke hone with 623 stones shows how bad they made it!
It usually takes .003 to .005" to straighten it out! I know a lot of folks use them and run the motors, but the old style 3 finger hone is MUCH better, or if u wanna "break the glaze" fold a 2" wide strip of 1200 grit sandpaper in thirds, lube it with WD 40, and try to do a cross hatch. Its a better way.
P.S. at much rpm over 2000 - 2500, the rings compress to the smallest diameter of the bore, and don't do too much everywhere else. Gun blue shows that too!
Continue on....
TIMINATOR