PA Emission Fail

[STF420@comcast.]

I wanted to run something by you guys. I Failed PA emission test. (86 GN 60# Emission chip 100% stock motor & Turbo 60# Inj. 160 Stat. Sunoco 93 Fuel pressure would not go lower than 41/42 Vac off. (New Kirban FPR) Runs fine "NO CAT" Test pipe

CO% Limit 1.10 Test Value 2.28 FAIL
HC% Limit 275 Test Value 410 FAIL
NO ppm Limit 3600 Test Value 1953 PASS
RPM 1497
Dilution 16%

My Questions are.
1- Will installing a CAT help this or should I check other things?
2- If they did not Warm the car up would that cause these numbers?

Thanks, Mike

 

[turbojd]

Put the catalytic converter on the car ( a known good one) it will help alot with emissions. Get it good and hot also before you go to inspection.
Also make sure your egr valve is working correctly.

 

[bison]

Idk why you would attempt passing without a catalytic converter. With a properly operating stock catalytic converter those numbers would be close to zero. Do not shut the engine off if waiting to test. Let the catalytic converter stay hot. I actually hold the engine at 2500rpm in neutral for a few minutes before the tester takes the car and I retard the timing to around 15*. This puts a lot if heat in the ex and helps ensure the catalytic converter lights off promptly if the engine is shut off while the tester sets up the testing equipment. Without a catalytic converter the engine being slightly cooler won't have much effect on emissions if its operating in closed loop and the coolant temp is up. Your car is rich if CO is high. I'd also tell the tester to do the test in 2nd gear so the rpm is higher. It will drop CO.

 

[turbo chris1970]

im from Pa also and what i did since i dont have a cat on my car is change my title to classic so i dont need an emission sticker,and this will eliminate your problem all together plus you get better insurance rates with classic insurance. i dont know what else to tell you to do but it worked for me

 

[STF420@comcast.]

Idk why you would attempt passing without a catalytic converter. With a properly operating stock catalytic converter those numbers would be close to zero. Do not shut the engine off if waiting to test. Let the catalytic converter stay hot. I actually hold the engine at 2500rpm in neutral for a few minutes before the tester takes the car and I retard the timing to around 15*. This puts a lot if heat in the ex and helps ensure the catalytic converter lights off promptly if the engine is shut off while the tester sets up the testing equipment. Without a catalytic converter the engine being slightly cooler won't have much effect on emissions if its operating in closed loop and the coolant temp is up. Your car is rich if CO is high. I'd also tell the tester to do the test in 2nd gear so the rpm is higher. It will drop CO.

I thought it might go thru. I pulled the injectors & Chip from my 87 GN. That passed with a Gutted Cat. Although that was in 08.
I had to drop the car off, So I could not watch them run it.

Eric over at TT Brought up that there may be a problem W/return line. He is right. I have not found it yet but the pressure will not go lower than 41PSI. (Put a Vac. pump on it down to 25") I can shut the engine down and the pressure would drop off. (Since there is no flow no back pressure in the return line)
I disconnected the return line at Power steering frame connection. put the line into a 1 Gal bottle I hung off steering arm. I was able to dial the pressure way down. I need to work my way back to the tank till I find the restriction. ( Still working on it) I will keep you updated. I Also have a CAT on the way. I don't think the high pressure caused the Fail but it is something I need to fix.

Thanks, Mike

 

[STF420@comcast.]

im from Pa also and what i did since i dont have a cat on my car is change my title to classic so i dont need an emission sticker,and this will eliminate your problem all together plus you get better insurance rates with classic insurance. i dont know what else to tell you to do but it worked for me

I Am going to look into the Classic Tags. Passing emissions is more of a Quest.
Thanks,

 

[bob86gn]

Classic tags in PA is awesome, lifetime tag, only safety inspection, no emissions.
I would think you would be hard pressed to pass without a catalytic converter.
To be honest, it shouldn't even pass the required visual without it.

 

[turbo chris1970]

in all honesty when i take it for inspection my mechanic just slaps the sticker on the car,he is a fellow racer as well as most of us so he does soo many muscle cars that are classics he dont even put the car on the lift...i have a dump pipe where the cat should be,i don't sweat it anymore once i went classic

 

[bob86gn]

No question, classic tags is the way to go.

 

[turb0buick57]

I am not sure, you may want to ask your emissions station, but I was under the impression that 1987 and older was now just a visual and gascap check. According to
http://www.ahs.dep.pa.gov/aq_apps/emissions/

I put in 1988 vehicles and they still required the tailpipe test, but 1987 and older according to the site was just a visual and gas cap.

 

[STF420@comcast.]

I am not sure, you may want to ask your emissions station, but I was under the impression that 1987 and older was now just a visual and gascap check. According to
http://www.ahs.dep.pa.gov/aq_apps/emissions/

I put in 1988 vehicles and they still required the tailpipe test, but 1987 and older according to the site was just a visual and gas cap.

Hi,

I will definitely bring this up. He did bang me for a Gas cap.
To be fair I did fail Visual for the CAT. I have 1 on the way. At least I will go back better prepared & informed.

Thanks, For the info

 

[turb0buick57]

Let me know how it turns out as I have a turbo regal I got in the fall due for inspection.

 

[STF420@comcast.]

Let me know how it turns out as I have a turbo regal I got in the fall due for inspection.

Will Do.
Still working on the fuel pressure issue. I am making progress.

 

[jimski]

I

Hi,

I will definitely bring this up. He did bang me for a Gas cap.
To be fair I did fail Visual for the CAT. I have 1 on the way. At least I will go back better prepared & informed.

Thanks, For the info

Only a visual and gas cap check should have been performed, if it is under 5000 miles for the year exempt

 

[turb0buick57]

I

Only a visual and gas cap check should have been performed, if it is under 5000 miles for the year exempt

True, but only if he previously had the vehicle inspected in his name before this go around. Which I am assuming isn't the case

 

[STF420@comcast.]

True, but only if he previously had the vehicle inspected in his name before this go around. Which I am assuming isn't the case

Correct, I just bought the car.

UPDATE: Passed
Sorry no test results. (Did not want to push it.)
I made sure the car was up to temp. Waited for the Rad fan to turn on 207deg SM reading turned it off. I walked in gave them the keys they took it right in.
Took 20-30 min. They backed it in on Dyno. I heard them revving it up. Then rolled it out W/stickers on it

Thanks to Stock Downpipe & ATR Cat from "Undercover87T"

I also fixed Fuel pressure issue. I drilled the front Saginaw return line fitting and Replaced the rear 1/4" rubber tubing that runs from the hard line to the gas tank sending unit with 5/16" tubing. Now I can lower to 32/33 Psi. No Vac.

TIP: When drilling the fitting run the drill in reverse. I nearly ripped the entire end of the fitting off when my pilot bit dug into the soft aluminum Saginaw fitting.

Replacing the Dennis Kirban 3" downpipe & Test pipe with the Stock DP + Cat was not easy. Previous owner Welded the Test pipe directly to the 4 bolt Cat back Flange. WTF Who does that? see photo.
When I bought the car I did not notice, Just knew there was no Cat. I thought the flg was missing a bolt. Turns out bolts were only for the hanger.

Thanks, Mike

 

[Tom87GNX]

I'm in PA also, and in case your not aware your car being a 1986 is not required to be dyno tested for emissions. Every year another car gets bumped off the list. Currently cars 1987 and older are a visual and gas cap test only, 1988 to 1995 are still required to run the dyno test. I'm assuring you this info is 100% accurate as I'm a certified PA emissions inspector. You can also check for yourself at www.drivecleanpa.state.pa.us/

 

[DailyDrifter]

If you guys are in bucks county area let me know, you can always have it exempt

 

[STF420@comcast.]

If you guys are in bucks county area let me know, you can always have it exempt

Hi Dave,

I should be OK now, May still go Classic. Either way I will be less than 5000 miles a year so Exempt anyway.

Thanks, Mike

 

[Boostian]

Thought I'd chime in here, even tho this thread is a few months old.

PA drivers:
Your GN is eligible for classic AND Antique tags. Classic you still need inspection every year, lifetime tag. Antique, you don't need inspection OR emissions.

No mileage or nighttime restrictions. The only restriction on both tags is the vehicle is for occasional use only (defined in the PA vehicle code title 18 as one day per week)

So yea, your choice. The classic plate looks better. I have an antique plate coming


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