PAC alky system

[JDSfastGN]

Just wanted to say this that i am even more impressed with this kit than i was before. I have run this setup on my GN for over a year now running 26-27 psi on pump gas and alky. Never had a complaint i could think of other than one small leak. So my dad ordered one for his 86 GN and I installed it this weekend and man was i impressed. Anything that i could think of that wasnt quite right about my setup has been upgraded and fixed on this one. Now there is a weather pac connector from the pump for easier removal of the pump as well as the red to green test light, new lower mounted sending unit(looks stealthier as well) and new spin on hose connector on the tank. Awesome job Razor.

 

[Razor]

Thanks bro.. just trying to do my best for the Buicks..

You likes the new setup.. :wink: I know.. lots of changes little bit at a time.. kinda like modding a car.. little by little.. never ending..

Your Dad will love the LED flip

Thanks for the thumbs up.. Really..

 

[scot w.]

Razor

Thanks bro.. just trying to do my best for the Buicks..

You likes the new setup.. :wink: I know.. lots of changes little bit at a time.. kinda like modding a car.. little by little.. never ending..

Your Dad will love the LED flip

Thanks for the thumbs up.. Really..

I'm new to the alky and would like to know more about it please.

1) can we run both methanol or denatured in your set up's without hurting the pump?
2) will this set up work with the TRANSLATOR PLUS and Extender Extreme chip?
3) what kind of boost would it take to max out the mototron 60lbr's with alky?
4) and last but not least how much? Thanks razor, Scot w.

 

[pacecarta]

1) can we run both methanol or denatured in your set up's without hurting the pump? yes I have , you can also mix with water if you so choose but straight meth is best

2) will this set up work with the TRANSLATOR PLUS and Extender Extreme chip? yes it should , i perfer turbotweak

3) what kind of boost would it take to max out the mototron 60lbr's with alky?
cant say but id guess youll be ging faster than the speed of sound before you max out the 60 with alky
seriously , boost and rpm will determine how much your duty cycle will be but asfaik no one has gone far enough to max a 60Lb injector , razor is mid 10s and hasnt used that much fuel ,

4) and last but not least how much? Thanks razor, Scot w
check his site for latest price
www.ALKYCONTROL.COM
with the 45A i would think a dual nozzle upgrade would be in order and a roll bar if you take it to the track

 

[Razor]

Thanks Paul..

One item that may be needed is a hot wire for the translator.. some cars will pickup interference from the injection system. Some dont. Worst case its a $25 deal.

I run between 45-52 lbs per hour fuel. Typically if my tuneup is where it needs to be, about 45lbs per hour using twin nozzles. Your 60 lb injectors at 90%=54lbs.. easily run mid 10's fuel wise.. Now getting into the 10's.. thats another story

You will need a lot of alcohol on a Buick when you really start putting the squeeze on it.. a lot.

You can look at the post "nitrous logs" and see the motor at 106.6 in the 1/8 at 60% DC ~3900 weight.

HTH

 

[pacecarta]

almost forgot about that , i saw you made some improvements in the last kist i installed and then some really nice improvements in latest kit that I got for my 86 , thought maybe that was an old issue

i do run the translator but with erics chip and i did hotwire my translator myself and it cured the interference and choppy MAF on hard acceleration i was seeing on directscan .

another solution to an almost invisible problem thanks to razors continuing involvement and R+D in alky injection and buicks ,
how long do you think it would have taken one of those other alky systems to pick up on it and find a solution?

 

[scot w.]

razor

With my car and my mods in my sig, My GOAL is to run 28-32lbs boost all the time "full kill mode" street/strip. I don't want to change a thing from the street to the strip..with what is in my sig what would you recomend for me? All your information is very helpfull and I like to get as many examples as possible along with as much info as possible seeing i'm new to this. I also am using direct scan for the tuning. What numbers should be a goal with direct scan and would using a a/c delco o2 be okay or would a denso be better? Scot w.

 

[Eric Stage I]

My GOAL is to run 28-32lbs boost all the time "full kill mode" street/strip. I don't want to change a thing from the street to the strip.

Scot, be very careful. Even on C16 this will kill a headgasket, motor, etc.

I love alcohol (injection), and I have Julio's kit on my car, works great. It is always tempting to run on "kill" all the time, but this is where people get into trouble with it. I run about 22-23psi on the street, then turn it up at the track.

I'm certain you can get to 28-32psi on alky, but running there all the time takes its toll, alky or C16.

Regards,
Eric

 

[Pablo]

In my experience, you wont be able to do that (28psi ) without a check valve or solenoid setup unless you constantly want to be pushing the test button. All it takes is an extended highway drive to clear out the line of alcohol and next time you get on it you will see major knock.

I know this from first hand experience. I need to set up something like that myself.

 

[Zoliaster]

Can you elaborate on the sol or check valve? Is there any down side to installing either? What are the advantages of one over the other?

Thanks

 

[scot w.]

not able to run 28-30lbs?

Okay now i'm getting confused here! how is it okay for Eric Marshall to be running at 22-23lbs and it's fine. but at 28-30lbs it won't be, and the caution is there? What i'm talking about here is leaving it at 28-30lbs and when going to work or just driving around normal why would that be bad if your not getting into boost with normal driving? I just want it there when it's needed. you never know when you could become a victim!!!! I can get 18lbs boost with 93 octane only and "0" knock at WOT. I thought that the alky system came on at a set point? if so! like 10lbs let's say, why would it hurt the motor or a headgasket if on the street you rarely get into boost or even above the set point? keep in mind guy's i'm new,

 

[scot w.]

Scot, be very careful. Even on C16 this will kill a headgasket, motor, etc.

I love alcohol (injection), and I have Julio's kit on my car, works great. It is always tempting to run on "kill" all the time, but this is where people get into trouble with it. I run about 22-23psi on the street, then turn it up at the track.

I'm certain you can get to 28-32psi on alky, but running there all the time takes its toll, alky or C16.

Regards,
Eric

By this you mean Getting Into It All the time? or just normal driving too?

 

[pacecarta]

28psi is a lot of hp even for a stock turbo and unported heads and its just like making a pass at the track it tkes its toll on parts in the driveline , think about how many times a day you might tip into the throttle all the way and then figre how much abuse you are doing and you can see why running in track mode will lead to an early rebuild

also 28 psi and more can be attained but eather conditions and so many other variables can affect how a car runs on any given day , i start out low boost around 23-24 and work my way up to see what the car can tolerate for that day ,

now when you leave the track and head home with timing high, boost maxed out and fuel at set lean at the edge of knock and then take it out again and its cooler out or damper out than the day you ran at the track you will find the car might be over the safe edge and now knocking , you might get away with this and it might just pop a gasket on the first time it happens , and roads arent preped like your local track , hit some sand spin the tires with high boost and you could easily put it over the edge

 

[Eric Stage I]

By this you mean Getting Into It All the time? or just normal driving too?

Normal driving is fine. I'm just talking about full throttle stuff.

Eric

 

[Razor]

Okay now i'm getting confused here! how is it okay for Eric Marshall to be running at 22-23lbs and it's fine. but at 28-30lbs it won't be, and the caution is there? What i'm talking about here is leaving it at 28-30lbs and when going to work or just driving around normal why would that be bad if your not getting into boost with normal driving? I just want it there when it's needed. you never know when you could become a victim!!!! I can get 18lbs boost with 93 octane only and "0" knock at WOT. I thought that the alky system came on at a set point? if so! like 10lbs let's say, why would it hurt the motor or a headgasket if on the street you rarely get into boost or even above the set point? keep in mind guy's i'm new,

Your car is in rush hour traffic for an hour, the motor now approaches 200-210 degree's.. everything is heat soaked.. all of a sudden the road opens up.. and you want to hit 30 PSI.. guess what.. unless your tuneup is dead on nuts.. alky/c16/buick juice/etc... your going to hurt something. Running a stock computer that is now 20 years old, that relies on a 30 dollar sensor.. that was tuned under different conditions.. etc.. there's a lot of room for error.

You'll at 22-25 PSI make enough power to overwhelm the tires.. most of us keep our boost levels there becuase it leaves a margin for error. The higher the boost, the less margin. You can hit 30+ PSI with meth injection.. but you need to walk up to that level. Not leave the car set at 30 PSI.. and when the pedal goes down.. pin the needle everytime. Doing so will get you into trouble.. Street cars are different than track cars. Driving around, you can foul plugs, develop wiring issues, get dirt into an injector, etc.. way different than a car that sits on a trailer and nothing is moving around.

Get a two stage boost controller with a low and high.. set your low to 23-25.. set your high to your choice. I bet you wont go to high too often.

Unless you have unlimited access to engines, keep it frugal.. the higher the boost.. the more likely a problem will happen.. keeping the boost higher will bring upon damage a lot sooner. Alky or Race Gas.

 

[scot w.]

28-30lbs

Okay! i'm starting to understand it alittle bettter, see I'm using MT street drag radials (all the time). when i'm on the street I may get a taker once in a while they are 98% of the time while i'm going 55mph. I always watch my EGT gauge's temps while i'm at WOT so they don't get over 1500deg. and my knock on my scanmaster. I'm not new to these cars, just the alky part. Everyone has been boasting about it and I was just woundering how easy it was! So Razor, What would be the easyiest way to run 22-25lbs boost? what do you recomend? The car is running awsome right now but i'm running a mixture of 93 and 110 sonoco but i'm killing the o2 and would like to get away from that race gas. (it's not cheap, and never open when i need to fill up). "without" going with a FAST set-up.

1) Does methenol and 93octane take it's toll on the o2 sensor like race gas does?
2) For tuning with direct scan, What numbers should I be looking for, for a good tune or a base tune?
3) What are you guys using for a o2 sensor?

 

[Razor]

1) Does methenol and 93octane take it's toll on the o2 sensor like race gas does?
2) For tuning with direct scan, What numbers should I be looking for, for a good tune or a base tune?
3) What are you guys using for a o2 sensor?

1).. no.. use a one wire AC Delco AFS20 like the OEM. Over time racing the motor takes it toll from the heat.. maybe change your O2 one a year since you are relying on its info for making s=decisions.
2).. typically on the street I like 780-800 at WOT. Track i'll play between 750-800 and see what the motor likes best.
3).. look at 1 above

mid 20's is a piece of cake on methanol inj. past that.. you'll need to weigh the risk/conditions/etc.

 

[scot w.]

Normal driving

Normal driving is fine. I'm just talking about full throttle stuff.

Eric

Eric, I may have went full throttle with this new TE45a at 21lbs boost on the street maybe twice in about 3-4 months, Never from a dead stop,just while i'm cruising. that's about the norm for me, just to give you some idea on how often this would happen...Iv'e not had one single problem out of my motor, I kinda keep it rich (to be safe) and i'm always staring at my gauges. 70lbs oil pressure when cold, 50lbs oil preassure at idle hot.. the motor is still going very strong....

1) ? With the extender extreme chip would it have to be re-calibrated for methanol or would it be fine the way it is?
2) Here is how it's set up:
Octane. 93
fuel press. 45psi
Waste gate%. low gear 85% / high gear 80%
Idle/ rev.limit. 800/6000

Sorry for all the qwestions! but I just want to do things right. you have been a wonderfull help and i'm sure i'm going to keep needing it....

 

[scot w.]

great!

1).. no.. use a one wire AC Delco AFS20 like the OEM. Over time racing the motor takes it toll from the heat.. maybe change your O2 one a year since you are relying on its info for making s=decisions.
2).. typically on the street I like 780-800 at WOT. Track i'll play between 750-800 and see what the motor likes best.
3).. look at 1 above

mid 20's is a piece of cake on methanol inj. past that.. you'll need to weigh the risk/conditions/etc.

RAZOR, it looks like i'll be buying your PAC sometime soon. :biggrin:

 

[PhilM]

GET A BIGGER TURBO, CAM, ...

The sweetspot on a 45 is not 32psi, sry

I really still dont know why people tune cars like this without realizing the effective ranges of their turbos on a particular setup...

IDK, it seems, especially in the alky section here, that people are still much more concerned with "boost." LET THOSE ENGINES BREATH!