Parts advice for engine rebuild

[WarWagon]

Yes, "around here" is Finland in my case.
The rules are very different, and change even more when the body is changed from the car.

Adam, since all the 78- engines are even fire, I suppose the aftermarket cams sold for even fire buick will fit to the block ?
Leaving the decision of which will actually work as well. I was worried if there's some that will not even fit in.

Going blow throug with a blow through carb and the 87 intake with custom adapter has been the other option in my mind.
That would enable using the 87 turbo as well.
But what else would I actually need there ?
For low boost, is the stock fuel pump enough, or woudl I need an in-line pump to overcome the boost pressure ?
If an inline pump is needed, I assume a regulator for the fuel pressure as well.
I'm worried it might end up being pretty expensive way.

That's right, any even fire cam will fit that block. The stock camshaft for those turbo engines is ok, the stock cam from the '86 and later turbo engines is better, I use and like the 206/206 roller in my blowthru Buick. A 204/214 cam is biggest i'd suggest and fits heads with no work needed. I've used all of these camshafts and you really can't tell one from the other.
Staying a draw throught style turbo will be simplest and cheapest but least power and can use OE fuel pump too. Another drawback for the draw through is the turbo has to be a carbon seal style turbo to handle vacuum and air/ fuel mixture and these turbos have more drag or friction with a carbon seal. The moment you decide if you want to go blowthru the cost and complexity goes up along with power potential but now the intake manifold, turbo and carb selections are many. Only with a blowthru style would your fuel system need attention.

 

[Mikko R]

Long time since I updated this one.

The setup to go for has got more clear.
There is now a demon 650 blow through carb sitting on top of a 86/87 GN lower intake.
Basically it has a 1" carb spacer and a 5 mm aluminum plate to mate the bolt patterns between carb and intake.

I fitted a Malpassi boost referenced fuel pressure regulator there to start with.
It's an italian invention from times when carbed turbos were common in europe. And a lot cheaper than any of the american versions around here.

Last weekend the summer season certainly was over, so I pulled the engine out, and need to get it to machine shop during the winter.
The later model turbo is still waiting on the shelf, but now that blow-through is the target, it will most likely be used as such.
With the knock sensor, I suppose I need to use the original distributor and ESC box.
I remember reading from some buick engine book that this engine would benefit from MSD 6AL type of a box. Has someone tried if they actually make any difference ?
Multiple sparks under 3000 rpm, sounds like a nice thing that might help the low end, but does it really ?

edit:
Also got a 200-4R tranny very cheap, but it's missing the pump. Also no information on the condition, so will be a project for this winter, or some later time

 

[Mikko R]

Couple of more pictures to end the season View attachment 292010

 

[WarWagon]

Nice update, I like the progress and the direction of the build.
You could use the stock ESC and knock sensor with distributor or if you wanted quicker response, use this:
http://www.jandssafeguard.com
The MSD 6BTM is OK and only gives a few choices on boost retard rate.
Your fuel regulator is cool but a lot of useful boost referenced regulators are under $100.
This is a cool different project.

 

[Mikko R]

Thanks Adam!

It sure is different than most
In Finland you can't get the kit (or factory built) replicas registered on the road, so there are very limited options if you want a "cobra", and they all seem to get expensive.
The trick is to change less than 50% of parts, so the car remains as the original car in register. So this one is officially a Buick Regal still. With the interesting percentage counting rules, it ended up with 38 % or parts changed.
To give an example, the original fuel tank, heater and radiator are used.

I'd expect the malpassi regulator to work. (but have never tried one)
It is boost referenced and adjustable with the nuts on top.
It also has dual outlets in it, so I won't need a Y-line with it.
What I'm a bit worried about is the 8 mm inlet size.
I'm not looking for large hp numbers from it for now, so hopefully it will be enough.
If not, then I just need to get something better.

-Mikko-

 

[WarWagon]

Welcome!
That is going to be one cool Buick Regal "Cobra" for sure, It's nice to learn that no more than 50% parts trick to get it on the road, pretty slick.

 

[Mikko R]

Well, the winter fun has started again
It seems to take temperatures well below freezing point to actually start working at the garage.
Engine is now torn to pieces, and will hopefully soon be going to the machine shop.

Would you guys have experience on what I should know to check from the engine now that it is apart ?
This is a 1979 stock block, 030 oversize, and the pistons had Buick text in them, so perhaps even GM parts ?
The bearings seem to be pretty badly orange, which I suppose means they are quite worn. (picture attached)
Oil rings in pistons seemed to be quite tightly at the bottom of the grooves, and not moving easily. (is this normal ?)
3 of the cylinders were completely black, while other 3 seem to have burned at least somewhat normally.
The engine was having issues with oil pressure, and pretty severe issues with burning oil when accelerating or lifting throttle.
Turbo doesn't seem to have any shaft play that I could feel with fingers to either direction.

I think there were number of oil passage improvements listed in the Jefferson Bryant book(let) for max performance Buick engines, but are those of any importance in a weekend cruiser use ?

 

[Mikko R]

Attached a picture of the pistons from side as well.
Somehow I expected the oil rings not to be that deep in the groove.

 

[Mikko R]

Some progress as it is winter after all.

The block is at machine shop, and I received a box of parts.
Sealed Power main bearings with 3/4 oil grooves, in hope of a bit better oiling.
And Enginetech cam bearings with a grooved first bearing. I was a bit surprised that there is only one hole in the first bearing, but I suppose the groove provides oil constantly to the drivers side, and the second hole is not needed anymore.

Another interesting point I found out was the 3 dots on the connecting rods.
According to a pdf copy of a workshop manual, they should be directed to front on one side, and to back at other.
And when I took the pistons out, one side had them to the front, and other had two pointing to front and one to back of the block.
So apparently there were 2 or 4 rods installed wrong in the engine since last rebuild.

 

[jiho2]

Funny thing about rules. They are generally designed to be enforced by people who have no idea what they are doing. But this often results in rules that don't do anything that needs to be done.

 

[jiho2]

Your pistons show GM part number 25502386, which looks right for a carb turbo. Not sure about the year or size though, since my parts book is for '82 on and only lists 25502381 (standard high limit) and 25502383 (.030" over).

Interesting that your pistons already have the closed skirt under the wrist pin bosses. I'm still trying to fill in the history on that. The original '78 pistons had a smile-shaped cutout there, like all NA pistons do. At some point Buick decided to fill that in, but for the turbo only. This was a mistake, in my opinion, because it prevents cooling in the area between the cylinder wall and the end of the wrist pin -- which is why Buick then fiddled with how the wrist pins are oiled, but continued having problems with cracked pin bosses to the very end. Aftermarket pistons avoid this issue with short skirts, SBC style.

This Buick style has only a small amount of cooling through a slight indentation at the bottom of the skirt.

 

[Mikko R]

The pistons had 030 written on top, so likely 030 oversize.
Unfortunately I have no information on them, as this is the first time I opened the engine.
Didn't notice anything strange in the pistons, but the oil rings were pretty badly stuck on all of them.
Also some connecting rods must have been installed wrong, as the 3 dots in 5 of them were pointed forward and 1 to the back.