Problem with APR rod bolts

[Lugnut28]

The machine shop that did my engine work has a bolt stretch gauge that fits. I dont know what kind it is but I can find out if you like. They said that they use it alot because they build many race engines.

 

[HellOnWheels]

Problem with ARP rod bolts

Is it possible that the rod ends were cut to much or they have been resize (cut) so many times that things are out of kelter??

HellOnWheels

 

[tc86gn]

what Mike Licht said. I'm Through with that.

 

[Lugnut28]

Mike Licht

The brand of stretch gauge is BHJ, and it works very nicely.

Glenn

 

[tc86gn]

Dude,
From what I understand, Mike has a lot of experience w/ these cars.I would take his advice and move on to something else.

FWIW I have always just torqued ARP's to 40 and never had a problem. I use moly lube on the threads and under the head.

 

[Lugnut28]

Dude,

What torque numbers do you use when you torque your rod bolts and what numbers do you get on your bolt strech gauge?

 

[tc86gn]

no stretch gauge. Actually I talked to ARP and they said it was not necessary. I torqued mine to 40 which was the recommendation of the machinist that resized the rods. Dude.
I am just trying to help save you some time and money. I think it is a futile attempt to do so. later................................

 

[Lugnut28]

Hey I'm not loking to get into a pissin match about this. I just am suprised that people put thousands of dollars into their engines, purchase a critical part to hold it together and disreguard the directions that tell you how to install it. When the manufacturer tells you that it is better to use a bolt stretch gauge rather than torque specs why is that overlooked. I haven't gotten a response yet that told me that they got the rod bolt to stretch to the range of .0062-.0066. I find this kind of strange.
I also have a problem when someone tries to convince me that I should disreguad the infomation supplied buy the manufacturer.
If I bought these for $10 fro Pep boys I would feel so bad, but for $80 for 12 bolts I want more than guesses.

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Lugnut28
Hey I'm not loking to get into a pissin match about this. I just am suprised that people put thousands of dollars into their engines, purchase a critical part to hold it together and disreguard the directions that tell you how to install it. When the manufacturer tells you that it is better to use a bolt stretch gauge rather than torque specs why is that overlooked. I haven't gotten a response yet that told me that they got the rod bolt to stretch to the range of .0062-.0066. I find this kind of strange.
I also have a problem when someone tries to convince me that I should disreguad the infomation supplied buy the manufacturer.
If I bought these for $10 fro Pep boys I would feel so bad, but for $80 for 12 bolts I want more than guesses.

The problem is, that most or ARP's experience is in small block chevys and fords, etc. It's been proven time after time after time that some things just don't work the same on these little buick motors. There's a ton of experience available out there on these motors. Much of it, a LOT more reliable than what you sometimes get from ARP (not flaming, they just don't know).
Take their torque recommendations for head bolts on our engines No thank you, I'll follow the recommendations I've received from experts over the last 16 years, and it has never failed me yet.

Ya just have to sometimes be a little careful. Follow the manufacturers recommendations if you like, but why not at least listen to some of the LONG TIME experts on these little motors.

I'm not one of those LONG TIME experts, I've only got 16 years on these motors, and no radical build ups, so I call the guys that have been building hot little motors for a while.
Personally, I prefer the stock rod bolts, but, my motor will never see anything over 6,000 rpm, so they're MORE than sufficient.

 

[The Radius Kid]

I agree with Dave.I can't see any reason for an ARP rod bolt when the factory bolts have served guys well for years.What sometimes gets forgotten is that the threads in the rods are iron,not steel.Now if the rods used a bolt and nut setup,I *might* see a need for ARP's.

 

[tc86gn]

Hey I'm not loking to get into a pissin match about this

Neither am i. But I have a pretty strong prostate. lol. Bet I could win.

I just am suprised that people put thousands of dollars into their engines, purchase a critical part to hold it together and disreguard the directions that tell you how to install it. When the manufacturer tells you that it is better to use a bolt stretch gauge rather than torque specs why is that overlooked

Yes I put a lot of money into this motor and I did not disregard the directions. I gave the bolts to the machinist w/all the rest of my stuff to be machined. He did say something like what Dave said that I really did not need them but since I already had them we went ahead and used them. He resized the rods and instructed me to torque them to 40.I am not a machinist but when the rods are resized aren't the bolts torqued when this is done? A good machine shop will tell you what torque they used and what to torque them to. Did they? Also looking at the directions that you posted in a pic, I noticed that in those instructions it was talking about pressing the bolt onto the rod. that is not correct either. that is for a bolt and nut configuration. Did you disregard those directions? of course you did. this is not logical. Just as it is not logical to keep trying to stretch them until they strip out. At some point you have to realize that if this keeps happening it is wrong.

. I haven't gotten a response yet that told me that they got the rod bolt to stretch to the range of .0062-.0066. I find this kind of strange.

Not strange. If you went to this stretch then the rods will probably strip out!!!

I also have a problem when someone tries to convince me that I should disreguad the infomation supplied buy the manufacturer.

If the manufacturer instructions are correct then why are they stripping? It doesn't make any sense!! But hey, since it is apparent that you have a problem with me trying to convince you to disregard the instructions, then don't. Just keep us updated on how many more sets of rods you go through.

If I bought these for $10 fro Pep boys I would feel so bad, but for $80 for 12 bolts I want more than guesses.

I guess I have just been guessing really well for a long time now! although this is my first high performance buick V6, I have never had a motor come back for a rework. Just satisfied customers bringing me more work!!
Really dude, we are just sharing what we know with each other and trying to help each other out. when you ask a question and an honest answer is given, and it is called a guess, you are insulting my skills as an experienced mechanic and instructor. No problem though. Mine is running. And very well I might add.

 

[Russ Merritt]

I would have never believed it it if didn't JUST happen to me I have done my share of bearings on these engines with the ARP rod bolts and I can't believe this just happened. I saw this thread the other day and scratched my head like " his wrench is off" Mine isn't off and now I'm lookin for a new rod.

 

[ThikStik]

Lawz have mercy! Just another reason to dread engine build time. I think this should be taken up with ARP-they at least should provide new rods. What do you think?
Good luck

 

[The Radius Kid]

Originally posted by rick cain
Lawz have mercy! Just another reason to dread engine build time. I think this should be taken up with ARP-they at least should provide new rods. What do you think?
Good luck

I would say best of luck on that one.They'll probably blame it on improper torquing procedure,then rectify the problem.It's the same old story.