problem with waste gate-acuator and turbo

[Lbraucht]

hey guys, i just got done putting a pt51 turbo on my car and i used a adj. stock style waste gate acuator. The problem is when my and my dad hooked it up and tryed to power brake it to see it it spooled but it just stalled and no boost at all, the acuator didn't even move. i tryed to hook up the acuator two different ways. 1 is the same way it was with the stock turbo 2 is running the hose from the compressor right to the acuator that didn't work either. I called Jays gn were i bought the turbo from and they said to hook the acuator that way. I have know idea how this thing even works. does the waste gate stay all the way closed till you let off the gas and it opens up letting the exhuast out. i don't know whats wrong with it or how to fix it if any of you know what i'm talking about and how to fix any information or help would be really useful. Thanks alot
-Tim

 

[salvageV6]

Take the line right from the turbo and run it straight to the new actuator arm.

That should give you spring pressure boost level.

Should be 12-14 with a stock wastegate actuator and 15 with a high boost one.

Take it on the street and test it not powerbraking it.

Make sure the chip and fuel is right for the car.

 

[BEATAV8]

I see you have a THDP in your sig. That means you should have a large puck on the wastegate which should fully cover just about any wastegate hole except for an extremely large hole used for some external type wastegates. Larger holes can give better boost control at high boost levels because they can allow more exhaust gas to bypass the turbine.

My car has a THDP too. I have noticed that on ocassion when adjusting the wastegate that the THDP puck doesn't always seat perfectly the first time. However, after it cycles open and closed once by itself it has always been OK (ie drive the car and build full boost at least once).

Now whenever I adjust my wastegate actuator rod I always jiggle the wastegate and make sure it has seated against the turbine housing and is not hanging partially open.

Also, the wastegate stays closed all the time during normal driving. It opens only when you have your foot in the throttle good and heavy. When you see your boost gauge climb up and then stop at the desired setting, that's when the wastegate has opened. The shorter the rod length on the adjustable actuator, the higher the spring seat pressure is the higher the max boost setting is.

Running the hose from the compressor housing straight to the wastegate actuator is often called running "tuner style". If your chip is programmed to pull some boost out in high gear (to help avoid detonation) then running "tuner style" will disable that feature. The ECM uses the boost control solenoid to allow it to change boost pressure, and running "tuner style" the solenoid is bypassed. I have run my cars both ways.

 

[Lbraucht]

thanks guys,

when i bought the turbo and THDP from jay's gn he said it would work with that turbo. i remember him saying that the down pipe has a big wastegate puck that i could run just about any turbo with it. i have it set up now in the "tuner style". and when i power braked the car just bogged and stalled and i heard the wastegate noise when it opens. My dad said he saw some boost build on the boost gauge. So if the wastegate acuator is working do you guys might know why the car just bogges and stalls. i can't drive it around now because of the snow so i'll have to waite. Maybe i ruined the acuator when i weilded a peice on the bracket to make it fit on the 51 so i might just buy a new acuator. see if it works then because i have it hooked up the way you said. thanks for the information i hope it helps
-Tim

 

[salvageV6]

If you have an adjustable regulator and an air compressor hook a small line up to the actuator and start with 5 psi.

Work your way up to about 20 psi.

If it doesn't move by then or moves at the wrong pressure it isn't good.

Need a decently controlled air flow and a gauge for accuracy.

If you have 20-30 psi. shop air try it too and see how well it moves by turning the air on and off with a blow off nozzle hooked up.

Simple tests of the thing.

 

[BEATAV8]

If you do decide to get a new actuator, Precision Turbo and Engine makes a specially modified one to fit the TE compressor housings.

 

[Lbraucht]

hey, i tryed hooking up my compressor to the actuator and it has regulater on it. And the actuator worked. Then we took it for a ride and it did the same thing it did before. The turbo is trying to spool and the car just starts to bogg and then stalls you can hear the wastegate noise or flutter but i don't know what is making it open. I have the rod screwed all the way in so thats when the wastegate is all the way closed. Do i have to put in the adj. chip to run anohter turbo because i have not got around to do it yet, i still have teh stock one in it? I have the fuel pressuer set at 45psi for the 50# injectors. i don't understand how the actuator works it stays closed holding the wastegate closed against the turbine right? What a spring in their does that? Then when the disired boost comes from the turbo it starts to push out the wastegate actuator opeing the wastegate. Well if i'm right and thats how it works i have no idea why my car is not running normal.
-Tim

 

[turbo buicks]

you do have the chip for 50s for sure correct? mine was not for 50s when i got it and the car wouldnt idle and it ran so rich it couldnt get out of its own way. also check plug wires. i left one off once and didnt know it and got 1 psi at WOT!!! i hooked up my WG tuner style once and what i did was route a line directly from the compressor housing to the WG, bypassing the Y hose and solenoid altogether. after a lot of slow spool and tons of turns on the WG rod to just get 15 psi i learned you got to keep everything hooked up as before w/an adj. WG, just swap the WGs and go.

 

[scottyb]

The fluttering you hear is not the wastegate. It is the sound of pressurized air passing backward thru the compressor wheel. This happens when you close the throttle plate under boost or high flow thus creating pressure that has nowhere else to go. Sounds to me that your case is the motor choking and making similar result as closing the plate. Long story short, hook it up tuner style and find your problem because I bet it isn't the wastegate.

 

[BEATAV8]

Tim,
It sounds like you've got the wastegate operation figured out correctly. Yes there is a spring inside the actuator. Actually there is a spring and a diaphragm. The spring keeps the wastegate closed, and when boost pressure on the diaphragm gets high enough to overcome the spring force, it pushes the wastegate open. I think you are right, the wastegate does not sound like the problem here. A bogging and stalling problem could be something caused by incorrect fueling, like a mismatch between the chip and injectors, or an ignition problem (loose plug wire, bad plug, coil problem). The most important match is the injector size in the engine and the injector size programmed into the chip. That match has to be right.

If the adjustable chip ran well with the 50lb injectors before the turbo swap and you are positive that it is programmed for 50lb injectors then it is probably not the issue. The new turbo, even though it is much larger than stock, should work fine with the same chip.

Maybe there is something small that was worked on during the turbo swap that was forgotten? (I've done that type of thing before!) Are all the sensors are plugged back in? Hose clamps on the MAF hose and intercooler are all tight?

 

[RUQWKNF]

Couple more ideas to try.
Is the wastegate arm straight and parallel with the swing valve?
If not, and it's at an angle, this could pose a problem.
How exactly is the wastegate arm adjusted?
Meaning, when you have the rod adjusted before putting it on the swing valve, how close is the rod to the swing valve?
Do you have to use alot of force, or pliers to install it onto the swing arm? If you have to use pliers or vice grips to install it, then boost will be very high.
If you can pull the rod over to the swing arm and just slip it on by hand, then boost should be set a base spring pressure. Also, you want to make sure that the rod is not adjusted so as to physically move the puck/swing arm assembly off of the turbine housing. IOW, the swing arm should be pulled closed against the turbine housing.
As was mentioned before, we do keep the wastegates on the shelf that would be a direct bolt on for the PT-51.
One thing that could be going on now is, if the wastegate rod is adjusted so as to cause the swing arm to open, (or not cover the wastegate hole) when you go WOT, you will see significant lag, with very little boost built, as well as a rich condition. (Due to fueling and no boost to go with it)
Just a couple of thoughts.
Let me know if I can help you.

Patrick
Precision Turbo & Engine
Sales & Tech
219-996-7832

 

[granitestategn]

Stock chip!??

Tim,

Did you say that you still have your stock chip installed? I know you sig says you have an "adjustable" chip, but it sounded like you didn't install it yet. I would hope you have a new chip burned for your new combination. Do you have a scantool? What are your o2's doing when it stalls? How did you determine that 45 PSI fuel pressure is right for your 50's? Don't want to beat a dead horse but don't try to make too many changes at once. It makes it harder to find the problem if something doesn't go right. That being said, I can understand why you would put the injectors and turbo on at the same time. Just trying to get a better picture of what's going on.

 

[Lbraucht]

Thanks,

I think i might know whats wrong with the car. Like turbo Buicks said that his car was real rich, mine is the same way it was even worse than my 68 plymouth GTX I have that 7 pos. chip that is for 50 # injectors because its on the box it came in. Dont know how realiable that is. I also have the scanmaster 2.1 neither are installed yet. Because me and my dad didn't want to do alot of modifications all at once incase something was not right or not working but this weekend i'm them putting both in. I didn't know that it was that important to have a chip that is programed for the injectors you are running. I was going to put the chip in soon but i wanted to make sure every was working right that i had already put in. I know now what a stupid mistake that was. I hope putting the chip in solves this problem because it was really starting to piss me off. I got onther question what fuel pres. are you guys running with 50# injectors should it be at 45psi at idle and 1psi for every pound of boost you run or something like that? I have it set at 45psi right now i was wondering if that is around were it runs the best. I got that off of www.gnttype.org. I'll be sure to put the scanmaster in and the chip before any test and tuneing.
-Tim

 

[turbo buicks]

the FP can vary from car to car. mine likes 42# i believe is what its set at. mine was so rich it would barely run and it smoked black smoke no matter what. and the SES light flashed.

 

[Lbraucht]

hey mine had black smoke also when i tried to powerbrake it right before it stalled. If the chips lsoves the problem i'm going to play around the the fuel pres. to see what runs the best i know it can vary from car to car i wanted to see if i had mine close to where other people with 50# injectors have their so i know mine is not set too high thnaks,
-Tim

 

[turbo buicks]

wait i am running 45 psi FP, it was my friends car im thinking of thats running 42 psi. i was having 830 o2 mV and 0 knock though. turned it to 16 lbs no knock and o2 mV are 815.

 

[BEATAV8]

Tim,
It sounds like you've found the problem. First time you drive it with the new chip it should run great.

Be sure to watch the boost pressure! You've swapped lots of parts and the boost pressure will need to be adjusted for sure. If you see the boost exceed 16 PSI or so you'll have to turn it down a little bit until you can get that scanmaster going and start tuning.

Also, be sure the adjustable chip is set on a "street" setting to start with. Try the more agressive settings after the scanmaster is installed and you can watch the knock retard.

regarding fuel pressure,
45 PSI should work just fine for a starting point. The fuel pressure regulator is connected to a vacuum hose that goes to a distribution block atop the intake manifold. It recieves boost pressure as well as vacuum from that hose. The regulator will automatically increase fuel pressure 1PSI for every 1PSI of boost you run, conversely it will decrease fuel pressure 1 PSI for every 1 PSI of vacuum you get at idle.

When you set the fuel pressure to 45 PSI, be sure to set it "line off". That means you have to diconnect the vacuum/boost line going to the fuel pressure regulator, then set the fuel pressure. Then plug the vacuum/boost line back in.

I'm running 46 PSI fuel pressure with 55lb injectors.

 

[Lbraucht]

yeh i think i figured it out to i hope. before i drive it again i'm going to put the chip and teh scanmaster in. Also the actuator was painted before so you can see the legnth the rod was screwed out so i'm going to put it thier becasue it was at 16# pounds of boost. i'm going to leave the fuel pressure where it is and see how it runs then before i start tuning. Thanks for the information guys it helped alot.
-Tim