Questions

[VadersV6]

After switching to a stock D-5 from an Art Carr non lock, I only get lockup under a load when going up a hill, and I cant figure this out.
With the key on, I checked power at the tan/blk wire on the ALDL connector (the wire coming from the TCC solenoid), and I'm getting 12.2 volts. This tells me that the voltage is making it from the brake switch to the TCC solenoid and to the ALDL. I checked my brake switch and its adjusted ok. The weird thing is, when I depress the brake pedal, the voltage at the tan/blk wire on the ALDL goes from 12.2 volts, to 11.8 volts. Shouldnt it go to zero?
Another question- If I were looking straight at the TCC connector on the side of the tranny, what should the colors be in order. Like top left is purple, top right is ***, bottom right is ****, bottom left is Tan/Blk.
I'm getting 26.6 ohms between pins A and D (purple and tan/blk) on the plug at the trans. This tells me the solenoid is wired up and good. The plug on the tranny is really floppy and loose though. No idea why or if this would be bad.
Another question- When we pulled the tranny, we disconnected the TV cable down at the trans and the cable disonnected from that little hook in the tranny. When We reinstalled the tranny, I simply pulled up on that little hook and hooked the cable back up to it. Is this all there is to that, or was there something else in there that this cable was supposed to attach to? I know tension is still on the cable, and it's working ok. I just dont know if there is something else to that thing that could affect lockup.
The inside of the bore on this used D-5 I bought had a decent amount of galling in it. Could this cause leakage of pressure necessary to lock?
Could having a couple trouble codes prevent lockup? I have codes 42 and 45 on the scanmaster, but no check engine light.
Will having my fluid a little low cause it to unlock?
I know my computer is commanding lockup, because the extender requires the computer to command it before it will begin lean cruise. Lean cruise works.

 

[A. G. Olphart]

No action here, so I'll respond to at least part of your question with a dumb question of my own.

Did you reinstall a stock lockup style valve assembly (and the 'cup plug') in the pump?

I really don't see how going uphill would do much.

If the TV cable works, you got it hooked up.

The rest of your post is beyond me (no turbo-Buick, no Scan Master, no trouble code chart), except that I doubt if TCC valve function may be accurately predicted by coil continuity. (Lack of continuity, yeah, it won't work).

HTH.

 

[VadersV6]

No action here, so I'll respond to at least part of your question with a dumb question of my own.

Did you reinstall a stock lockup style valve assembly (and the 'cup plug') in the pump?

I really don't see how going uphill would do much.

If the TV cable works, you got it hooked up.

The rest of your post is beyond me (no turbo-Buick, no Scan Master, no trouble code chart), except that I doubt if TCC valve function may be accurately predicted by coil continuity. (Lack of continuity, yeah, it won't work).

HTH.

The rest of your post is beyond me (no turbo-Buick, no Scan Master, no trouble code chart),
What do you mean? That you dont have a GN, scanmaster, etc?
Checking the resistance of the solenoid through the right pins tells you if its wired up correctly and that the coil isnt burned out. But, it doesnt tell you if its wired up backwards.
I didnt reinstall a lockup pump because for all I know, it may have one in there. When I bought the car, the purple power wire was removed from the connector, so i think they just disabled the circuit so it would never work. Here's what gives me doubts about there being a non lock pump in there. When I'm in Drive, the manual TCC switch works and the clutch locks up...sometimes. But it never works in overdrive which is waht confuses me. If there was a non lock pump in there, would TCC ever work? I wouldnt think so, and mine does work. Its just all backward. Lockup usually doesnt happen in drive, but it does in overdrive. Mine is backward. It does the opposite. In a readup on ECM code I checked out, it said that the ECM is programmed to unlock the clutch when the engine sees a big load, so the clutch doesnt wipe itself out. Mine is backward. No clutch lockup while cruising, but there is lockup under a load, like going up a steep hill in overdrive. I dont know if this would be a valve body issue, or maybe someone wired up the TCC solenoid wrong inside the tranny. I was thinking maybe the wiring for the solenoid (power and ground) were wired up backward in the pan, but if that were the case, the lockup switch wouldnt ever work. I'm 100% positive the switch is wired up correctly. Ive invested so much time in trying to improve my mileage with no success. Every tried and proven method of increasing mileage has failed with this car. Its an enigma. I found that the prior owner has tuck the wrong header to compressor flange gasket in there and its been leaking bad. I pulled the turbo and fixed it today, but god only knows if it will help mileage. I read someone on here gained 3mpg by just blocking the IC scopp. Thats hard to believe, but at this point Ill try anything. My brakes arent dragging, my tires are inflated really high, i dont drive it hard, and have worked on just about everything imaginable to increase mileage. I found a test for backpressure and tried it to see if my cat is plugged. You check the vacuum at 1000 rpm, and then bring it up to 2500-3000 and check it again. If vacuum drops a few inches, you have a bad restriction. My vacuum actually goes up a tad, so I doubt thats it.
Ive searched everywhere for more info on lockup pumps and valves, so I can understand it, but no one has ever really answered my questions. If I were to buy a stock lockup pump valve, where would i install it? Where is the pump? Where would I install a cup plug? I take it a cup plug gets removed when switching to a non lock setup. Who knows. Either no one on any turbo buick board knows anything about trannies, or no one cares to help. Everyone probably wonders why I dont just take it to a tranny shop. Because I have no money.

 

[petesgn]

After switching to a stock D-5 from an Art Carr non lock, I only get lockup under a load when going up a hill, and I cant figure this out.
With the key on, I checked power at the tan/blk wire on the ALDL connector (the wire coming from the TCC solenoid), and I'm getting 12.2 volts. This tells me that the voltage is making it from the brake switch to the TCC solenoid and to the ALDL.
Correct

I checked my brake switch and its adjusted ok. The weird thing is, when I depress the brake pedal, the voltage at the tan/blk wire on the ALDL goes from 12.2 volts, to 11.8 volts. Shouldnt it go to zero?

I just checked my car and it went from 12.1 unapplied to 2.00 v applied
dont know why .


Another question- If I were looking straight at the TCC connector on the side of the tranny, what should the colors be in order. Like top left is purple, top right is ***, bottom right is ****, bottom left is Tan/Blk.

top left is purple, top right is blue ,bottom right is green/ white (tracer), bottom left is Tan/Blk.

I'm getting 26.6 ohms between pins A and D (purple and tan/blk) on the plug at the trans. This tells me the solenoid is wired up and good. I checked mine its at 24.0 ohms so good

The plug on the tranny is really floppy and loose though. No idea why or if this would be bad.as long as the inside connector stays on.

Another question- When we pulled the tranny, we disconnected the TV cable down at the trans and the cable disonnected from that little hook in the tranny. When We reinstalled the tranny, I simply pulled up on that little hook and hooked the cable back up to it. Is this all there is to that, or was there something else in there that this cable was supposed to attach to? no thats it

The inside of the bore on this used D-5 I bought had a decent amount of galling in it. converter might have touched the pump stator due to loose bushing on the trans the d5 came out of.
Could this cause leakage of pressure necessary to lock? shouldn't


Could having a couple trouble codes prevent lockup? I have codes 42 and 45 on the scanmaster, but no check engine light. I had some soft codes before never affected lockup on my car.

Will having my fluid a little low cause it to unlock? how low?

I know my computer is commanding lockup, because the extender requires the computer to command it before it will begin lean cruise. Lean cruise works.

Try grounding the tan/black wire see if it locks up.

 

[A. G. Olphart]

"What do you mean? That you dont have a GN, scanmaster, etc?"

Correct. Also limited BBS skills, so the quote is done the old fashioned way- copy & paste.
I'm an Olphart playing with a hybrid project that happens to involve a 200-4R, so I hang out here some; beyond that, likely the only thing we share is our financial situation.

The TCC valve is an electromechanical device, so I'm not positive that a good coil always means a functional valve; that is what I was trying to say.

I inferred that the pumps lockup valving would need restoration based on this: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmission/cvt_to_nonlockup.html
Which is part of this:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmission/transpage.html

If Pete's test doesn't prove that the converter will lock with the current valving, that could still be the problem. I'd imagine that both PTS and CK Performance would happily sell you the part(s) and provide guidance in their installation. Or, each and every stock 200-4R in the junk yard came with them. (I don't have Chris's book handy to check position, removal etc.).

With $3 gas, I feel your pain.

 

[VadersV6]

After switching to a stock D-5 from an Art Carr non lock, I only get lockup under a load when going up a hill, and I cant figure this out.
With the key on, I checked power at the tan/blk wire on the ALDL connector (the wire coming from the TCC solenoid), and I'm getting 12.2 volts. This tells me that the voltage is making it from the brake switch to the TCC solenoid and to the ALDL.
Correct

I checked my brake switch and its adjusted ok. The weird thing is, when I depress the brake pedal, the voltage at the tan/blk wire on the ALDL goes from 12.2 volts, to 11.8 volts. Shouldnt it go to zero?

I just checked my car and it went from 12.1 unapplied to 2.00 v applied
dont know why .


Another question- If I were looking straight at the TCC connector on the side of the tranny, what should the colors be in order. Like top left is purple, top right is ***, bottom right is ****, bottom left is Tan/Blk.

top left is purple, top right is blue ,bottom right is green/ white (tracer), bottom left is Tan/Blk.

I'm getting 26.6 ohms between pins A and D (purple and tan/blk) on the plug at the trans. This tells me the solenoid is wired up and good. I checked mine its at 24.0 ohms so good

The plug on the tranny is really floppy and loose though. No idea why or if this would be bad.as long as the inside connector stays on.

Another question- When we pulled the tranny, we disconnected the TV cable down at the trans and the cable disonnected from that little hook in the tranny. When We reinstalled the tranny, I simply pulled up on that little hook and hooked the cable back up to it. Is this all there is to that, or was there something else in there that this cable was supposed to attach to? no thats it

The inside of the bore on this used D-5 I bought had a decent amount of galling in it. converter might have touched the pump stator due to loose bushing on the trans the d5 came out of.
Could this cause leakage of pressure necessary to lock? shouldn't


Could having a couple trouble codes prevent lockup? I have codes 42 and 45 on the scanmaster, but no check engine light. I had some soft codes before never affected lockup on my car.

Will having my fluid a little low cause it to unlock? how low?

I know my computer is commanding lockup, because the extender requires the computer to command it before it will begin lean cruise. Lean cruise works.

Try grounding the tan/black wire see if it locks up.

THANK YOU!!!!
I am grounding the tan/blk wire through the switch, and to the ground wire on the ALDL. The entire circuit looks good. It wasnt a low fluid problem. It was almost a quart low, yet still no lockup except going up a hill.....when it's supposed to be unlocking, not locking. According to a schematic of the TCC circuit, Depressing the brake pedal shouldnt cause the voltage to drop that low at the ALDL. It should stay close to 12 volts. When I depressed the pedal, iot went to 11.8 volts. According to the scematic, this is right. But I dont know why yours would drop like that.

 

[VadersV6]

"What do you mean? That you dont have a GN, scanmaster, etc?"

Correct. Also limited BBS skills, so the quote is done the old fashioned way- copy & paste.
I'm an Olphart playing with a hybrid project that happens to involve a 200-4R, so I hang out here some; beyond that, likely the only thing we share is our financial situation.

The TCC valve is an electromechanical device, so I'm not positive that a good coil always means a functional valve; that is what I was trying to say.

I inferred that the pumps lockup valving would need restoration based on this: http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmission/cvt_to_nonlockup.html
Which is part of this:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/transmission/transpage.html

If Pete's test doesn't prove that the converter will lock with the current valving, that could still be the problem. I'd imagine that both PTS and CK Performance would happily sell you the part(s) and provide guidance in their installation. Or, each and every stock 200-4R in the junk yard came with them. (I don't have Chris's book handy to check position, removal etc.).

With $3 gas, I feel your pain.

Ill check out those links. Its true that a solenoid can ohm out fine, yet still not actuate due to binding or whatever. What is Pete's test?
I would be interested in finding out what the difference is between a lockup pump valve and a non lock valve. Does the non lock valve just completely block fluid flow, or does it only allow fluid to pass in the opposite direction. What makes it so strange is the fact that the lockup only happens when it's actually supposed to unlock. Thats a pretty big clue, but i dont know enough about trannies for it to mean anything to me.

 

[A. G. Olphart]

Pete's test: Grounding the tan/black wire to see if you can lock the converter on demand.

I've been to my shop, and Chris's book also says that the converter clutch valve must be pulled & replaced with a proprietary non lockup valve when going to a non lockup converter. (Exactly what they do... as a guess- block the lockup feed).

At this point, life ain't gonna be easy; the simplest path to a lockup setup would probably be to install a complete (with all valves) front pump.

Luck...