Red's double pumper with E-85

[Mr URL]

I have Red's double pumper in-tank setup with Red's (shimmed I think) modded 340's I think. Do I need to change out the fuel pumps to be E-85 compatible or will those pumps be ok?

 

[TType85]

Not sure on the pumps but how is the rest of the fuel system? MSD 50#'s won't go far on E85. The rubber lines on the stand pipes from the tank may need replaced too.

 

[626gn]

I have Red's double pumper in-tank setup with Red's (shimmed I think) modded 340's I think. Do I need to change out the fuel pumps to be E-85 compatible or will those pumps be ok?

The following may not be of much help but I am speaking from my own first hand experience. I had the same concern as you when I bought my car 8 years ago. It already had a Red's double pumper setup since 2006 and I knew when I got the car I was going to run e85. Fast forward to today (8 years later) I'm still running the same double pumper setup on e85, perhaps not the smartest decision. Granted I did replace one pump 2 years ago because it's flow rate was diminishing (the pump never actually died) but you have to consider the pump was already 15 years old at that point. Most will recommend new pumps and replace them regularly especially if running e85 because risking blowing your shit up over an old pump you should have changed long time ago, is not worth it, and I would not disagree with that logic. But as with anything else, opinions will vary and my experience is just that - my experience.

FWIW, I've had conversations with other highly respected members of this board (Ttype6 is one that comes to mind) who have had similar experiences with Red's pumps in regards to the pumps ability to handle e85.

Lastly, fuel quality is another important topic that often gets overlooked. It can vary from State to State and is one reason why some run e85 with no issue and some only have issues with this particular fuel. I get my ethanol out of a sealed drum which can only help in terms of consistent fuel quality compared to the fuel you might get from some random gas station with some unknown additive package in it (the stuff they never reveal).

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

 

[Mr URL]

I already replaced the fuel lines. They got eaten up few years ago. They are E-85 enabled now! I plan on putting massive injectors in for E-85 and my goal to run mid 9's. No worries. The MSD-50's are old pump gas/alchy injectors.

I also plan on changing the chip to Bob's latest E-85 chip to match it all and upgrade the ECM to handle the massive injectors.

E-85 fuel wise I plan on getting fuel from the gas stations in Iowa which is the E-85 capital of America. It will be a street driver getting stuff from local pumps which all have E-85 here in Iowa. Most of the plants of E-85 are in Iowa. I can drive every hour or so and see an E-85 plant.
Iowa is the highest corn producer state in the US.

My old home town Denison, IA has one of the biggest E-85 plants on highway 30 which is one of my top visiting spots. So, I'm sure the E-85 is fresher than most places.

 

[Mr URL]

I will replace all fuel pumps in my car. They are all too old now.

 

[Mr URL]

How many ethanol plants are in Iowa?

42 ethanol refineries

Iowa is the nation's leader in renewable fuels production with 42 ethanol refineries capable of producing 4.5 billion gallons annually – including 34 million gallons of annual cellulosic ethanol production capacity – and 11 biodiesel facilities with the capacity to produce 410 million gallons annually.

 

[Ttype6]

I have Red's double pumper in-tank setup with Red's (shimmed I think) modded 340's I think. Do I need to change out the fuel pumps to be E-85 compatible or will those pumps be ok?

They're not GSS340 pumps.
No.

 

[Mr.Spool]

The pumps are not e85 compatible
Period

 

[Ttype6]

The pumps are not e85 compatible
Period

They are in my car for more than 15 years and I use a paper filter that I haven't changed in 8 years.

 

[Ttype6]

Twice since I've had these pumps and have been running e85 my car set for 3 years with less than 5 gallons of e85 in the tank. Not so much as a speck of cornstarch anywhere in my fuel system, but I have heard some stories and some of them came directly from Red.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Twice since I've had these pumps and have been running e85 my car set for 3 years with less than 5 gallons of e85 in the tank. Not so much as a speck of cornstarch anywhere in my fuel system, but I have heard some stories and some of them came directly from Red.

When Red was alive he told me they weren't e85 compatible and not to run that fuel on his pumps.
I have seen some inconsistent results with intank pumps and ethanol fuels.
Very few can say they have had any longevity like what you have experienced my friend
I have seen several in intank pumps (some that claim they are e85 compatible)go away and do some heavy damage with very little indication the fuel pump was losing volume.
Some intake pumps have done well up here too.
The bottom line is it's a big ask and trust.
I'm glad it works for you (I went through 3 of his pumps in 8 years personally and several others)but it's a huge concern on my end when I'm dealing with guys cars and my own that I need to be certain the fuel is going to show up.
We do alot of injector cleanings up here and it's very interesting to see pump and fuel line material clog them up and then someone having 0 issues with the e85 fuel.
My car had no injector loss and no debris in the injector or filter when we tested it.
But I'm on ptfe lines and an aeromotive brushless spur pump.
Back when I was On 93 with 10% ethanol I went through several intake pumps and would have had to change it already.
My friends car has quantum intank pumps on e85 but he did ptfe lines and has 0 issue like yourself going on like 7 years and the car is driven hard.
He watches the computer hard though looking out for potential failures

 

[Ttype6]

When Red was alive he told me they weren't e85 compatible and not to run that fuel on his pumps.
I have seen some inconsistent results with intank pumps and ethanol fuels.
Very few can say they have had any longevity like what you have experienced my friend
I have seen several in intank pumps (some that claim they are e85 compatible)go away and do some heavy damage with very little indication the fuel pump was losing volume.
Some intake pumps have done well up here too.
The bottom line is it's a big ask and trust.
I'm glad it works for you (I went through 3 of his pumps in 8 years personally and several others)but it's a huge concern on my end when I'm dealing with guys cars and my own that I need to be certain the fuel is going to show up.
We do alot of injector cleanings up here and it's very interesting to see pump and fuel line material clog them up and then someone having 0 issues with the e85 fuel.
My car had no injector loss and no debris in the injector or filter when we tested it.
But I'm on ptfe lines and an aeromotive brushless spur pump.
Back when I was On 93 with 10% ethanol I went through several intake pumps and would have had to change it already.
My friends car has quantum intank pumps on e85 but he did ptfe lines and has 0 issue like yourself going on like 7 years and the car is driven hard.
He watches the computer hard though looking out for potential failures

I was speaking to one of the turbo Buick members via personal messaging and he pretty much had the same exact experience as me or his car sat for 3 years it was 75% ethanol when he put it away and when he got it back out and put his engine back in it was 90% just like in my case and he's never had any kind of issues with any kind of corrosion or crap of any kind and he lives in Hawaii so he's surrounded by saltwater so that's not the issue. No one has ever seemed to figure out exactly why some of these things get ruined so horribly and others just don't have any trouble at all and I wish I knew the answer.

 

[626gn]

I was speaking to one of the turbo Buick members via personal messaging and he pretty much had the same exact experience as me or his car sat for 3 years it was 75% ethanol when he put it away and when he got it back out and put his engine back in it was 90% just like in my case and he's never had any kind of issues with any kind of corrosion or crap of any kind and he lives in Hawaii so he's surrounded by saltwater so that's not the issue. No one has ever seemed to figure out exactly why some of these things get ruined so horribly and others just don't have any trouble at all and I wish I knew the answer.

Yup, that would be me and I can corroborate that story. Also, while my engine was out I even sent my injectors to Chuck for cleaning and he confirmed the baskets where still clean. The same injectors were on the car for many years, on e85, before sending them to Chuck.

After 15 years of playing with ethanol, this year I have decided to switch to alky. I would still be running e85 if it were not for the rising costs in my location.

 

[Ttype6]

Yup, that would be me and I can corroborate that story. Also, while my engine was out I even sent my injectors to Chuck for cleaning and he confirmed the baskets where still clean. The same injectors were on the car for many years, on e85, before sending them to Chuck.

After 15 years of playing with ethanol, this year I have decided to switch to alky. I would still be running e85 if it were not for the rising costs in my location.

Yes, I forgot about the injectors. I sent mine out as well for the same reason and they were perfectly fine.

 

[Mr.Spool]

I was speaking to one of the turbo Buick members via personal messaging and he pretty much had the same exact experience as me or his car sat for 3 years it was 75% ethanol when he put it away and when he got it back out and put his engine back in it was 90% just like in my case and he's never had any kind of issues with any kind of corrosion or crap of any kind and he lives in Hawaii so he's surrounded by saltwater so that's not the issue. No one has ever seemed to figure out exactly why some of these things get ruined so horribly and others just don't have any trouble at all and I wish I knew the answer.

Yes there seems to be no answer just alot of theories.
One of which is expose to air.
But I have seen the fuel pumps and lines break down even on just 93 with 10%.
The guys racing up here hard core will use x85 when they want to really get after the tuneup just make sure its on the higher end.
To take the gas pumps and tanks out of the equation.
My theory is it's the way the stuff gets exposed at the actual pump.
e85 attracts water

 

[Ttype6]

Yes there seems to be no answer just alot of theories.
One of which is expose to air.
But I have seen the fuel pumps and lines break down even on just 93 with 10%.
The guys racing up here hard core will use x85 when they want to really get after the tuneup just make sure its on the higher end.
To take the gas pumps and tanks out of the equation.
My theory is it's the way the stuff gets exposed at the actual pump.
e85 attracts water

Over all the years that we've been running 10% ethanol in our gasoline I have never had an issue with my lawn mower and last year my brother had to put a carburetor on two of his Small engine devices because they were all crapped up with white whatever it is and I have friends who only run rec fuel, but again I've never had a problem.
Also, the rubber portions of my feed and return lines on my car our original and so is about a 1 ft piece of rubber hose that I installed on my feed line back by the tank over 30 years ago.
As far as aftermarket e85 goes, I bought 15 gallons of Sunoco e85 because I stumbled on a place near me that had it for $5.75 a gallon. If you buy a 5 gallon jug of the stuff from Sunoco it's about $13 a gallon I would never pay that but I forgot to stock up on pump e85 before they switch to the winter blends so I was glad I found that and I swear my car runs better with it and by better I mean it seems like it makes a little more power and it doesn't smell like rum which I have never liked and I swear you can smell a hint of 104 octane unleaded fuel that I figure is probably in that stuff. Compared to pump e85 it has almost no smell.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Over all the years that we've been running 10% ethanol in our gasoline I have never had an issue with my lawn mower and last year my brother had to put a carburetor on two of his Small engine devices because they were all crapped up with white whatever it is and I have friends who only run rec fuel, but again I've never had a problem.
Also, the rubber portions of my feed and return lines on my car our original and so is about a 1 ft piece of rubber hose that I installed on my feed line back by the tank over 30 years ago.
As far as aftermarket e85 goes, I bought 15 gallons of Sunoco e85 because I stumbled on a place near me that had it for $5.75 a gallon. If you buy a 5 gallon jug of the stuff from Sunoco it's about $13 a gallon I would never pay that but I forgot to stock up on pump e85 before they switch to the winter blends so I was glad I found that and I swear my car runs better with it and by better I mean it seems like it makes a little more power and it doesn't smell like rum which I have never liked and I swear you can smell a hint of 104 octane unleaded fuel that I figure is probably in that stuff. Compared to pump e85 it has almost no smell.

Blends are def different here.
We test high though sometimes over 85%
On 1 pump is says you can get 51 to 85%
Maybe that's winter vs summer idk.
that's a big swing to me but I run all my other stuff on it and nothing detonates.
I dont race during the winters anyway

 

[Ttype6]

Well, I finally found something in my fuel system that doesn't like E85. After 8 years of use, I decided to change the replaceable paper filter element in my aftermarket fuel filter. The filter looked like the day I installed it, but the coiled wire inside the filter to keep it from collapsing is made out of aluminum. I tapped the filter on my work bench to see if any thing would come out of it and something did. It was a piece of the coiled aluminum wire .I then tried to pull the rest of it out with a pick and it came out in three pieces. You could easily see the four very specific spots where the wire was attacked but the rest of the wire looked new. Since the wire was on the inside of my filter, there was nothin between it and my fuel pressure regulator. I can't help but imagine the problems that piece of wire might have caused if it had broken loose and traveled up my fuel line. Even worse, I wonder what a nightmare diagnosing a possible fuel delivery problem might have been. Lesson learned. I will now be replacing my fuel filter every seven year whether it needs it or not.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Well, I finally found something in my fuel system that doesn't like E85. After 8 years of use, I decided to change the replaceable paper filter element in my aftermarket fuel filter. The filter looked like the day I installed it, but the coiled wire inside the filter to keep it from collapsing is made out of aluminum. I tapped the filter on my work bench to see if any thing would come out of it and something did. It was a piece of the coiled aluminum wire .I then tried to pull the rest of it out with a pick and it came out in three pieces. You could easily see the four very specific spots where the wire was attacked but the rest of the wire looked new. Since the wire was on the inside of my filter, there was nothin between it and my fuel pressure regulator. I can't help but imagine the problems that piece of wire might have caused if it had broken loose and traveled up my fuel line. Even worse, I wonder what a nightmare diagnosing a possible fuel delivery problem might have been. Lesson learned. I will now be replacing my fuel filter every seven year whether it needs it or not.

There comes a point where preventative maintenance costs alot less then the failures
good spot

 

[MCH86GN]

Red also told me not to run E85 with his pumps, this was close to 9 years ago I believe. This interesting thing is that the vendor who sold me the Red's Double Pumper Setup, said the pumps were fine to run with E85. There was another well respect vendor who is not on this forum nowadays that said the same thing, use Red's setup with E85. I did not want to risk it and I both a Racetronix dual 450 pumps with the newer type hanger and the pumps are rated for E85. I paid $763 for the Red Armstrong double pumper setup, it included nothing. No relays, wiring harness, connectors, Hobbs switch or nothing. The Racetronix from Full Throttle, which I was able to get during a special was 10% off and cost about a little over $900 and this setup contained everything that is needed with respect to the harnesses, Hobbs switch and connectors. Sorry to go off on a tangent there. I ended spending about the same amount for the Red Armstrong setup after purchasing the proper components and the best offer I got for it was $325. That's the story of my life, buy high, sell low. LOL!