Ref angle setting

[geno]

I have a TDC ref i set when the motor was on a stand. Now i use that with a timing lite and see 7Deg difference between what felpro says and my lite. I set the ref angle at
3.0 instead of 10 and the lite and the felpro are the same. The only question i have is when using a lite with a dial on is the timing half of what the dial says because of the type of ignition and lite i have?(2 plugs firing at the same time)

 

[TurboTR]

Well IMO it shouldn't read half just because two plugs are firing- they fire at the same instant anyway. Did you put a crank trigger on it? Inductive pickup? Or adjustable position Hall pickup somehow?Sounds like your ref is at 3 deg BTDC then, unless the light is screwed up. Maybe try another light 1st? Easy enough to double check. Is the TDC mark verified in the right spot? Maybe the crank snout keyway is moved some? Just some thoughts.

TurboTR

 

[Craig Smith]

With a waste spark ignition, you will have an error with a dial-back timing light equal to twice whatever value you have the dial set to. If you leave the dial on the light at zero, the light will be dead on.

 

[geno]

The (0) mark was checked on the stand so i know its right. The lite set to zero on the dial still shows a error? Im going to try a regular lite today

 

[geno]

DA
The marks on the damper are 2deg and now it all makes sense and its all good now With the lite on (0) the timing map,dash board timing and the lite all jive now ... The ref is now set at 3 and the car will pick up with 7deg more timing.

 

[Jeff Rand]

Geno, I spoke with Neal Steward yesterday about this 7 degree difference using a BHJ balancer. Are you using a BHJ? You cleared up the discrepancy by changing your referance angle?
Jeff Rand

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Timing ref?

So, if I understand this correctly, I check the timing and change the reference in the FAST program to whatever I get w/ the lite??

Geno said he saw a 7* degree difference and set the reference at 3*[Manual says to use 10* to start with].
Craig says the error w/ a dial back lite is twice the dial value.
Since Geno saw 7* difference, does that mean the error is 14*??

Geno also said he still sees an error w/ the DB lite dial set on zero. Geno, what is that error?
I'm asking these ??'s as there was a thread earlier on that I asked why is a program I am looking at set for 7*, when the "book" says 10. I was told to check the ACTUAL timing and re-set the program.[I think Cal H. answered that ??]
IE: subtract the "error", 3*, from 10, or do I set the program to 3* and ignore the base setting??

Guess I could call Cairns, since he's "in the 9'z!!

 

[Craig Smith]

The error from having the reference angle wrong is unrelated to the error that would be seen with a dial-back timing light on a waste spark ignition. If the crank sensor triggers at 10 and the reference angle is at 3, you will see a 7 degree error from there. Now, let's assume that the reference angle is correct, and pointing a timing light at the car *SHOULD* show happy results. On a waste spark ignition system, pointing a non-adjustable light at the car will do exactly that. But, if you have an adjustable light, as soon as you start to roll the dial, you will see an error in the timing light equivalent to twice the value that you have the dial set to.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Anuder dumb ??

So, I do the NO dial back lite deal. Have the FAST set at 10*. Read the actual advance and correct the FAST to match, assuming the timing lite shows a difference??

DAMN, I'm GOOD!!!

 

[ijames]

And just in case anyone cares, the dial-back light isn't off because two plugs are firing at the same time, it's off because the plugs are firing twice as often as the light expects. Remember, a waste spark systems fires a pair of plugs when one is nearing tdc compression stroke and the other is nearing tdc exhaust stroke, and then fires them both again when the first plug is nearing tdc exhaust and the second plug is nearing tdc compression.

 

[Otto J]

when i picked up my system i did not get a instruction manual, are you guys saying i should check the timing on my car against the setting in the crank referece angle? if the reference angle is set at 10 and i zero out my timing at idle my light should show 0 degrees ? please clarify so i can be sure i have the correct timing
thnks Otto

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Reference?

Otto, If you have the newest version ,[WINDOWS], the manual is on the disc.. It's, I think, 29 pages and is printable.
As I understand this conversation, I am to check the timing w/ the reference set to10*. [Assuming it's a turbo BUICK]. Check the timing w/ a light, if the timing is different than 10*, IE: 7*, then I change the reference to 7*... ERROR is 3*..
Once I do that, the dashboard, the timing lite, and the reference should all read the same???

 

[Craig Smith]

There is a sensor called "Spark (BTDC)" in the dash at the bottom of the spark table screen. Whatever number you see there is what you should see on the timing light when the engine is running. Adjust the crank reference angle so that this is the case. In other words, if you show 35 degrees in the "Spark (BTDC)" sensor and see 33 degrees on the timing light, adjust the ref angle by two degrees to get them to line up.

 

[Otto J]

so to do this correctly would it be best to set the timing table to a number readable on the factory pointer? or best to use timing tape? i do have a snap on digital timng light ,but as read before i do not see this being useful on the wastespark system, which is the best approach
thanks Otto