S2 info needed

[gnsrule]

I just orderd up a 3.59 Scat crank but am now considering to build a stage 2 instead. I put the crank on hold.
If I went this route, i'd probably reuse most of my TSM setup I have for now. Unported gn-1 heads, gtq-70, possably even the 224/224 roller. I would like to think even that combo would be good for solid 9's all day long
Aside from whats advertised here and there, whats the good block and whos got them ??
I'm recomended to get a Scat crank , Oliver rods w/ custom J&E's. Sounds right to me. What else is there thats way differant than a 109. ??
Sorry for the rambleing of qustions, but s2 stuff is kinda new to me. I just wanna build something thats gonna run some numbers all year long, and a 109 in the 9's aint gonna cut it.
Any info is greatly appreciated.

Craig

 

[postal]

On center stage blocks are easier to find, usually cheaper to buy, and stronger. To run a on-center block you need a special intake manifold and a set of on center rods. On center rods again are easier and cheaper to buy.

The other issue is oiling and with the Duttweiller oiling system thats no big deal any more. I think around $450 or so and your on your way there.

I think the cost of a stage motor can be kept close to the cost of a highly built 109 block. I think the guy who does the stage build gets alot more for his money and a much better resale return if he ever gets out of it.

P.S: I have the intake manifold you would need for sale, if you decided to go on-center.

HTH: Jason

give me a call if you like, I know a few guys with stage stuff for sale. (309)253-7991

 

[maverick]

cost of stage II

I dont know about the rest of you guys out there....but a stage II is the way to go to achieve a solid reliable 9 sec car...and faster. I personally am having another on-center stage II built...cost wise is very expensive....a good block will be around $1500, heads $1200-$2500, cam kit around $1000 (push rods, lifters ect...), maching to front cover/block cleaning for proper clearances bearings installed roughly $1000-$1200. all these prices will be different depending on who does the work of course...and these are just a few to start with,,,,bottom line in all on my stage II I will have about $13,000 invested just to get engine together. Like I said...some guys find the bargains....and your build cost will vary. However one thing about stage II I think everyone will agree with is....expensive. I am in no way trying to turn you away from a stage II...I just hope you research the cost of getting one complete before you start trying to gather a few parts to one...believe me...I been down the road of starting something...then seeing what it will end up costing to finish blows me away. Good luck with your decision!!

 

[gnsrule]

Thanks for the help guy's,
Please correct me if I'm wrong:
I'm hopeing to find a new 153 block. Scat crank, 3.625 stroke w/ 6.5 ? Oliver rods. Full floaters. JE Pistons part# no clue. 4.0 bore i belive for a new 153 block.
Oiling I dont know about tho, what are my options ??
Cam is not an issue, the 224 is probly too small anyway, even for the unported GN-1's for now.
As far as being expensive, its all in the value of it. My other option was to build a new TSM motor w/ a billit crank and after evaluating the bang for the buck and the extreem maintenance issue..screw it, s2 is the only way to go. If it happens to fit into a TSE or TSO catagory when im done great, if not, its the other 26 weeks of raceing the count more than the 2 or 3 buick meets I can make.
I know I'm leaveing alot out, but this gets things going.
Thanks,
Craig

 

[mayosmechanic]

A new block is gonna be 2k+
New Crank 2k+
Rods 600 if you find a deal
Pan 500
Cam ?Depends
Heads 2k ported
Intake 750 and up by the time you modify or go aftermarket
Oiling System 300
Pistons 600 and up
Machine work 1000 and up
Thse are just numbers off the top of my head as far as what I have experienced.You will find that everything will need to be hand fit,modified etc.Yes it's big money but well worth it in the end.Just remember patience is a virtue,these parts are hard to come by in good usable condition.13K is not unrealistic if youyr starting from scratch.Not all machinist are created equal when comes to these engines.Ask around their are good and bad.I have a good one,email me i'll give you his name.

 

[gnsrule]

With the cost of a stock block TSM short block upwards of 8500-10k, going to a s2 isnt that big a jump. If I only did this from the begining.
Keep it comeing

 

[750H.P.V6]

Craig,

I agree with your statement in regard to cost of a high end TSM build up vs a Stage II build up. There are some all out TSM stock block engines that are in essence Stage II engines without the block ie: they have all the good internals + heads, roller cams etc. If you build a Stage II one thing you get for the $$ is displacement the other is reliability. I also agree they aren't cheap to build.

Neal

 

[S2V6RACER]

Don't skimp out and buy cheap parts. There is a lot of junk out there that will find it's way to your e-mail. Rule of thumb, if it goes up for sale, in most cases there is a untold story. Most of these stories never come to light publicly. You should consult a known engine builder/vendor to have a background check done on the seller of the parts. I have been stung on some junk because I am a trusting guy. Spend the $$ to have it built once, it will cost more to have the cheap guy do it twice, and he will.

 

[750H.P.V6]

Ditto for what Ted just said.

Neal

 

[gnsrule]

Absolutly !!!!

I know first hand about the SBC machine shop. They totaly screwed up when the did the flats on the botton of the main caps off parrallel by .0045 !!! and the line bore was 3 1/2 too big !!!
I do my own blueprinting and assembly thank god. That could have gotten ugly.
ANS finally got things squared away.
As far as good parts, absoluly. As I said, hopefully a NEW 153 block, New scat crank, new rods , etc .... If I do a killer short block for this year, then i still got the heads to do next winter.
My big question, what are my options for oiling ?? Stock cover w/ a Duttweiler scavenge plate deal ?? dry sump ?? i dont know.
Thanks 4 the help

 

[maverick]

craigs questions

Man you have alot of reply's Craig, from some VERY knowledgable Stage II guys....Ted A..Neal...all great guys who have been there. I personally have the BMS steel crank 3.625 stroke, 6.5" Carillo H beam rods, and I use the Duttweiler oiling system..crank/rods are wide journal.

Incase you will be looking for a crank,I have a BMS steel crank at the machine shop right now, it should be done in a week, it spun #1 rod bearing and front main, machine shop said they should have no prob fixing it up, no cracks...as soon as it gets done i can send you the new pics of it as well as everything that was done to it. The price on it will be $1450. shipping included.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Originally posted by gnsrule
Absolutly !!!!

I know first hand about the SBC machine shop. They totaly screwed up when the did the flats on the botton of the main caps off parrallel by .0045 !!! and the line bore was 3 1/2 too big !!!
I do my own blueprinting and assembly thank god. That could have gotten ugly.
ANS finally got things squared away.
As far as good parts, absoluly. As I said, hopefully a NEW 153 block, New scat crank, new rods , etc .... If I do a killer short block for this year, then i still got the heads to do next winter.
My big question, what are my options for oiling ?? Stock cover w/ a Duttweiler scavenge plate deal ?? dry sump ?? i dont know.
Thanks 4 the help

There are older 153 blocks with the internal pickups in the front passenger side of the blocks already machined. If that is the case you will not need the Duttweiler pump and can fabricate a pickup inside the engine.

If it is a cross bolt 1,4 block you can forget about the pickup.

 

[postal]

Craig:

I got your message but you didn't give me your phone number.

Jason

 

[LV GN]

Originally posted by gnsrule
s2 is the only way to go. If it happens to fit into a TSE or TSO catagory when im done great, if not, its the other 26 weeks of raceing the count more than that

amen!!