Should there be some gaskets I replace when do injectors and PP?

[marleyskater420]

I plan on installing my 50lbers and a RJC PP soon, along with some new valvesprings.

My question is that I was told to install the 50's I need to take off the TB and the plenum, and so I'd like to know what gaskets am I going to need to be replacing at this time? Also, the PP goes under the plenum, right?

Im new to all this so if there is a good tutorial somewhere showing how to do injectors, and where the PP goes, I'd really appreciate it. Im looking at gnttype.org but cant find much.

Are the injectors and PP something really difficult to do? I was able to do my FMIC and THDP by myself after asking around, would I be able to do the 50's and PP too?

-Thanks,Tyler

 

[Danster]

You don't need to remove the TB and plenum to do the injectors.

The PP should come with two gaskets. I think you can add the PP without removing the TB. It's been a while when I did mine.

I'm sure someone else will verify my information.

Dannyo

 

[pacecarta]

power plate has a pair of plenum gaskets if you purchased new

injectors use orings and again should come with them only need some silicone grease or petroleum jelly to set them (blow all the dirt and sand away from the base of the old ones before you pull them )

for the rockers you will need a pair of valvecover gaskets and 6 valve seals (for the intake side),a lot of pateince because the passenger side is tight to get off and maybe a breather grommet on the passengerside for the vent (or get a k&n type and replace the stock one and you might want to get a few extra keepers (locks ) as I always seem to drop a few down the frame
you will need a valve hold tool (hose with sparkpug theads at one end and air hose fitting on the other) and a good shop compressor , or you can try the rope though the plug hole (1/4 rope pushed in and then rotate engine till cylider is at the top)
you will also need the tool to do the springs and a bare shaft (if you take the rockers off yours you will need to get the nylon retainers to put them back on if you intend to reuse the shafts or just replace the stock rockers and shafts with the HD ones
do one set of valves at a time and use the nut on the alternator and a wrench to rotate the engine (clockwise)

tap each valve cup lightly with a socket before compressing to break the bond of the locks and the cup
once you press the spring down have a magnetic pickup ready to catch the keepers(locks)
when you go to put the new keepers on a little grease helps to keep the first locks stuck to the stem so you can put the other one on ( grease on the back side also allows you to hold them on the end of your finger or screwdriver )
once they are in the groove you can let go slowly and check that the locks are seated and give it another light tap on the cup with a socket to help seat them.

 

[marleyskater420]

Originally posted by Danster
You don't need to remove the TB and plenum to do the injectors.

The PP should come with two gaskets. I think you can add the PP without removing the TB. It's been a while when I did mine.

I'm sure someone else will verify my information.

Dannyo

How do you get to the injectors then?

 

[pacecarta]

only the fuel rail and coil /ign module assembly need to be removed for the injectors ,
releive all fuel pressure!!
undo the fuel feed and the fuel return lines
, remove coilpack assm
remove the thottle cable bracket
unplug injector harnes under coil pack
lift fuel rail up on one side (injectors will pop out with it
and then the other side



while the fuel rail is out remove the remaining fasteners to the plenum , if you remove the TB it will alow you to completely remove the plenum without disconnecting coolant lines , there should be room to get the plafte in but you wont get the gaskets surface clean
remove the intercooler up pipe hose you will find (you will have to raise the up pipe for the thickness of the powerplate )
move aside the coolant hard line and remove the screws to the vacuum block , you should be able to pull the plenum

with fuel rail on bench install injectors in rail with lube on orings (you could use the retainer clips to make it easier
lube all the orings
pop one side in then the other

 

[VinsGN]

Injector Swap

Marleyskater,

The injector swap info on gnttype.org is located under:

Resources / Technical Info / Fuel System (bottom of the page) / Injector Swap

I used these directions and had no problems. Just a note: If your injectors are original or old they will be stuck in the manifold pretty good. Make sure every thing is clean and work them out slowly, carefully and evenly.

My GN ran so much smoother with the new injectors.

 

[daviss]

Don't worry, I know it looks intimidating at first, but its not bad.

The power plate only goes on one way because of the offset of the plenum bolts. Its self explanatory once the plenum is off, plus mine came with instructions to boot.

 

[BEATAV8]

marley skater, be aware that there is a bolt hiding on the back of the plenum, under the coil pack. It can strip easily on the way back in.

 

[marleyskater420]

Ok. Thanks for the help.

Regarding the PP first. Do I take off the vacuum block from the TB? Or do I just disconnect the hoses? The PP just sits under the plenum so I can figure how it works.

Regarding the injectors:

Where is the cable to : "Disconnect the electrical connection just inside the back bumper in the center of the car". .. is that right under my back bumper? Where is it exactly located?

Take out the shrader valve in the fuel rail : Do I take out the little valve that sits in the aluminum fitting on the end of my fuel rail? How do I do that? How do I put it back? Or are they talking about the entire aluminum fitting?

6.Remove fuel inlet line. Is this the steel line that comes up to the fuel rail on the passenger side?
7. Remove PCV valve and hose. Where are these?
8. Remove vacuum hoses from top of plenum and the two hoses that are attached to the fuel rail. Are these the vacuum block hoses? What 2 hoses attatched to the fuel rail?
9. Disconnect fuel injector connector on driver side behind engine just below where coil pack was. What is this?

Pull black holding clip off injector.-Will I know what this is?

28. Apply 12 volts to the fuel pump test lead (grey wire behind alternator with the black connector). (The connector going to the hood light makes a perfect connection or you can also use a wire to the V+ on the back of the alternator for a feed.) This will supply power to the fuel pump and fuel to the injectors. - Can I just turn the ignition on in my car? Because the FP turns on and I get fuel pressure w/ the ignition on.


The reason Im asking so much is because I want to make sure I am going to do this right.

 

[pacecarta]

you can disconnect the plug at the rear of the fuel tank and run till it dies best thing to do is get a FI fuel pressure test gauge (actron at pepboys) )and it will allow you to drain off the pressure without running engine

shouldnt need to mess with the shrader valve

fuel inlet is on passenger side of fuel rail
return is under the fuel pressure regulator on driver side

once you remove the coilpack and module assembly on the plate if you look down youll see a white connector that feeds the injector harness

the pcv hose is on the passenger side of the plenum and runs up to the vacuum block on the top of throtle body , that line and the smaller metal feed line to the map sensor need to be removed to pull the fuel rail

the black injector holding clips are at the top of the injector where they meet the fuel rail and the will allow you to hold tops of the injectors into the rail and wire the harness while you have it on a bench and then carry the whole thinng back to the car.

you can jump the fuel relay as discribed to be sure that once your done you dont have leaks , best is to get the FI pressure tester turn the key to on and then monitor the pressure ,if it drops fast you should look for leaks , once your sure its not leaking fire it up and remove the vac line from the regulator and check or set the fuel pressure
if you decide to pull of the fuel pressure regulator (maybe to upgrade to an adjustable) be easy when tightening the two small bolts on the sides , the regulator seals like the injectors and the bolts doesnt need to be overly tight to maintain a seal
also the fuel rails have a small O ring seal and you shouldnt have to use sealor or tighten them to tight to get a seal

i think i got all your questions
if you have more just post em

 

[pacecarta]

also want to add , you need to put your new chip in the ECM for the 50# injectors before firing up the car and setting fuel pressure

disconnect the orange lead by battery before replacing chip

 

[marleyskater420]

If I have a rail mounted fuel pressure gauge, do I need to take that off?

What does FI stand for in FI fuel pressure gauge? Where does that mount to?Is that just to make sure there is no fuel pressure left?Is it neccessary? What substitutes could I use?

Man, I ask a lot of stuff.


Thanks again.

 

[pacecarta]

that rail mount will work fine , you could just disconnect the fuel tank electric harness and run car till it stops , or just let it sit for overnight and the pressure usually drops on its own . check your gauge , let car cool down before cracking open the fuel lines !!

 

[tom h]

Tyler,
As others have suggested, definitely have a few extra valve stem "keepers" on hand, they tend to get lost.
(There are 2 keepers per valve.)

Rocker arms are stamped Left & Right -- if removing them, don't mix!! Make a sketch to be absolutely safe.

Also stuff clean rags into the oil drainback holes in the cylinder head ... so "keepers" and other small stuff doesn't fall into the engine.

Have you selected valve springs yet? Competition Cams CC-980 used WITHOUT the stock "spring cup" are popular for stock cams and have just slightly stronger spring pressure (about 75-80 actual lbs). Don't go wild with 90-100 lb spring pressures or you risk premature cam wearout.

Useful parts:

keeper for valve stem GM # 24503856

Seals for Intake valve stem GM # 25535162

Plastic retainer button for rocker arms GM # 1254371

stock CORK Gasket Rocker Cover GM # 25523348
(many opinions on "best" Cover Gaskets. Some hate cork, others love them).

 

[marleyskater420]

Originally posted by tom h
Tyler,
As others have suggested, definitely have a few extra valve stem "keepers" on hand, they tend to get lost.
(There are 2 keepers per valve.)

Rocker arms are stamped Left & Right -- if removing them, don't mix!! Make a sketch to be absolutely safe.

Also stuff clean rags into the oil drainback holes in the cylinder head ... so "keepers" and other small stuff doesn't fall into the engine.

Have you selected valve springs yet? Competition Cams CC-980 used WITHOUT the stock "spring cup" are popular for stock cams and have just slightly stronger spring pressure (about 75-80 actual lbs). Don't go wild with 90-100 lb spring pressures or you risk premature cam wearout.

Useful parts:

keeper for valve stem GM # 24503856

Seals for Intake valve stem GM # 25535162

Plastic retainer button for rocker arms GM # 1254371

stock CORK Gasket Rocker Cover GM # 25523348
(many opinions on "best" Cover Gaskets. Some hate cork, others love them).

So should I buy some extra "keepers" for the valves?

I found these valvesprings: http://secure.johnsperformance.com/...R46Vf2005412.23529*yU3a6&product=Engine-Parts

And these seals: http://secure.johnsperformance.com/...58v92005412.23529*hh1pt&product=Gaskets/Seals


Also the same valve cover gaskets on that page as well.

As for right now I would be buying those valvesprings, those seals, and those valvecover gaskets.

Anything else I need to buy? If so, where at?

Are the clips holding the injectors onto the rail easy to break? Or will I be able to figure out how they work and not break em?

Oh BTW thanks you guys for all the help. I think once I get my chip Ill put on the injectors, and then Im going to get a buddy to help me install the VS's.A friend of mine has a buddy who does all this stuff, so I think he might be able to help me.

 

[pacecarta]

in order to remove valves you need the tool from kirban (rons auto) but it doesnt come with the shaft to pry against
to use the tool you need a barerocker arm shaft (or a pipe with some holes drilled into it so you can bolt it down)

better off going to a junk yard and pull a shaft from wreck or get the HD shafts and strip yours for the tool.
if thats not possible and you cant make one and plan to use your shaft to pull the springs you will need the plastic rocker keepers that press into holes on the shaft between each rocker arm , i dont beleive its possible to remove them and reuse , they almost always break .if you do it right you will only need six since only one shaft needs to be stripped
the rockers are marked R+L for reassembly and should not be mixed up
also if reusing rockers keep the rockers and pushrods in order for reassembly back to their original locations, if you do one head a time when you remove the shaft the rockers stay on and will remain in the correct order for reassembly , the pushrods just punch six holes in a row a small cardboard box and place them in line as you remove them .



if you had stock springs dont use try to use transfer the damper cups just use the new springs as they come out of the package

those little injector clips just slide off

a 3/4 open end can be used to pry out the old injectors out of the manifold . once you have the rail and injectors off the car you can proceed to swap them out one by one ,
slide off the clip , cut the nylon ties so you can remove the injector harness from that injector, (push the clip in and it will relase and you can slide off)
pull out the old injector
,grease the orings on the new one and wiggle it in ,you can slide the clip back on and reconnect the harness , move on to the others and then retie the wires to the rail
now you can drop the hole thing back onto the car ,grease the other orings and put some grease on the manifold holes and pop the passenger side in first and istall fuel line (dont tighten yet ) then go to driverside and pop those in while guiding the fuel line into the regulator.
now tighten the fuel lines up

 

[tom h]

Originally posted by marleyskater420

So should I buy some extra "keepers" for the valves?
YES!

I found these valvesprings: http://secure.johnsperformance.com/...R46Vf2005412.23529*yU3a6&product=Engine-Parts
IMHO, 100 lb springs are WAY too strong for a stock cam. Comp Cams CC-980, 75-80 lbs actual seat pressure, are available from Jegs or Summit racing for around $40-50 per 6 cyl set. Install WITHOUT the stock factory "cup".

And these seals: http://secure.johnsperformance.com/...58v92005412.23529*hh1pt&product=Gaskets/Seals
They're probably fine. I just happen to prefer GM-branded parts because the fit and tolerances are assured, but many aftermarket parts are OK.


Also the same valve cover gaskets on that page as well.
Those are Felpro Rubber Gaskets. There are a couple different varieties of the Felpro rubber gaskets, can't tell which those are. Cork vs Rubber seems to be a matter of personal taste and installation technique. One can get leaks or a good seal with either one.

As for right now I would be buying those valvesprings, those seals, and those valvecover gaskets.

Anything else I need to buy? If so, where at?
A spare rocker shaft for use with the Kirban's Valve Spring tool is nice but not essential, around $30 for a generic aftermarket shaft. Otherwise you'll have to remove the rockers from your shaft, and then re-install with new plastic retainer buttons, a minor annoyance.

The Kirban's Valve Spring Tool is the best. It's about $40-45 (?).

If your budget allows, it might be nice but not essential to install a set of rocker shaft reinforcements from RJC Racing. Around $60 (?). The stock shafts have been known to break.

Are the clips holding the injectors onto the rail easy to break? Or will I be able to figure out how they work and not break em?
Clips are straightforward once you have the rail & injectors out. The clips don't bend or break with "normal" shop common sense.

 

[marleyskater420]

Thanks for the help.

Where can I buy some keepers at?

IF I do them, I'd be doing them with a buddy, and he has done all this stuff before, so it would be safe to assume he has these tools.

 

[tom h]

Originally posted by marleyskater420
Thanks for the help.

Where can I buy some keepers at?

IF I do them, I'd be doing them with a buddy, and he has done all this stuff before, so it would be safe to assume he has these tools.

"keeper for valve stem" is GM # 24503856, purchase at any GM dealer, but it might have to be ordered.

Unless your friend works on rocker arm shaft cars a lot and Turbo Buicks in particular, I would NOT assume he has the correct valve spring removal tools. Eg, most V8 chevy engines use stud mounted rocker arms and the spring removal tool is totally different.

Yeah, you can always be "creative" and "improvise", eg the BFH approach, but I'd advise planning it out and doing it "right" ... IMHO.

 

[marleyskater420]

Originally posted by tom h
"keeper for valve stem" is GM # 24503856, purchase at any GM dealer, but it might have to be ordered.

Unless your friend works on rocker arm shaft cars a lot and Turbo Buicks in particular, I would NOT assume he has the correct valve spring removal tools. Eg, most V8 chevy engines use stud mounted rocker arms and the spring removal tool is totally different.

Yeah, you can always be "creative" and "improvise", eg the BFH approach, but I'd advise planning it out and doing it "right" ... IMHO.

Ill look into finding if he has the tools. He works on TB's a lot from what I hear. He is helping my friend put in a LC2 in an elky. It sounds like the guy knows his **** from the way my buddy talks about him, but Ill look into seeing if he has the tools.

So then Ill get the keepers, the comp cam valvesprings, the valve seals, and the valve cover gaskets.

If the guy doesnt have the tools, then Ill order the tools as well.

Hows that look? Am I missing anything?