Smokin'...Heads Responsible?

[Terbro]

So here's the deal. Remember back in Nov. I put in the new motor with GN1 heads. At first, all was great, but starting a couple months ago, it's started smoking (gray) at start up. It's been getting worse and worse, and smokes a lot (and sputters a little) until it warms up. It does subside substantially after it's warm, but will still smoke a little on a warm start. It also smokes on hard accelleration.

I'm next to positive it's oil. 1,500 miles after an oil change, it was 3 quarts low! Considering the bottom end is from a 6K original miles motor, I'm more inclined to think it's the heads. I also recently noticed oil coming out from two of the spark plug threads on the passenger side. Pulling those plugs revealed very oily threads. I'm also getting a MAL code 45 - that comes on after about 3 minutes from a cold start, and stays on until I cruise it for 3-5 minutes.

I also found that the oil was totally black at 1,500 miles. With a new motor, there wouldn't this kind of wear. And it didn't seem like wear, it was so black, it looked like maybe carbon from burning gas or oil?

So, the question is: Is it possible that there are valve seal leaks? Oil leaking through the valves into the cylinder? Burnt oil being pushed back into the oil circulation? Sound like the time to get an oil analysis, ey?

The performance is still great though...it's one strong SOB. In other words, it doesn't feel like I'm down on compression and losing performance. Maybe a leak down test is in order? Can someone give me a comparison of the leak down test vs. a compression test?

I'm not certain about this one, but I think the O2 readings are down on the Scanbastard now. I've started getting readings (on short blasts) in the 600s...I know, too low. The reason I mention it, is I'm wondering if the ECM is trying to figure out what do with trying to burn an oil rich fuel, and it just doesn't come out right during WOT?

TIA,
Terry

 

[Tow Man]

Sounds like worn seals and may also need guides. Were these brand new heads?

 

[Terbro]

Brand new from Champion.

 

[Trevor Johnson]

The valve guides would have to be very loose to actually consume a noticable ammount of oil. A loose valve guide will only have a clearance of .003 and with a positive seal on it will not let a large volume of oil past. A bad giude shouldnt smoke during acceleration unless it was drasticly worn or broken and you would hear that. It will however smoke on start-up, I definantly would recomend a leakdown test to find your cylinder leak percentage. A compression test is only really good for showing differences from cylinder to cylinder. If the heads have been ported you should check the pushrod and bolt holes for leakage, also intake gasket seal. Good luck

 

[musclecar neal]

Black oil in such short time sounds like a ring seal problem not heads. The oil becomes black from combustion by product finding its way to the oil. Just because the short block has 6000 miles on it will not guarantee that the cylinder walls and rings are in good shape. I have seen cylinder walls with 100 miles on them so glazed and rings damaged from fuel wash down the car was like a bug fogger. Tom at Champion does a nice job and I would like to think that when they put heads together the guides are fitted well. I would give Tom a call, he is a pleasure to deal with and has been doing heads for a very long time. It might be smart to do a leak down test and see what it tells you. The best guesses won't stand up to good diagnostics. Hope you get it solved.

Neal

 

[humberto]

I have the same problem with brand new champion heads.A little blue smoke when you first start car.It dousnt really bother me if it dousnt get worse but im surprized that other people are haveing the same problem.But cant complain about the performance gains these heads just love to FLOW.

 

[equalizer442]

like my mechanics teacher told me one time "who cares if your car smokes alittle your still faster then every one in this room"

 

[Red Regal T]

When I see my car smoke, but wonder why, I think TURBO..........and I'm usually right!

 

[Terbro]

I wasn't actually that concerned about the smoke until it started getting worse. Let me tell you, if you want to cut off 20 years off your life, smoke a pack of cigarettes everyday, or stand behind my car during cold start up for the first five minutes...if you can stay conscious.

But I'm now concerned after discovering the loss of oil (from the crankcase), and it's color, along with the oily plug holes. Let me tell you, with as much oil as I'm finding on the plug threads, there's a lot of oil escaping from somewhere.

I can't imagine it's the turbo. Firstly, it's a brand new PTE TE44. Secondly, it looks like the problem is limited to 4 cylinders only. If it was the turbo, the problem would be evenly distributed at the plenum.

Red Regal T, are you saying that the oil leaks into the intake or exhaust from the turbo?

 

[Red Regal T]

I HAD THE SEAL GO ON MY TURBO GRADUALLY A COUPLE TIMES. FIRST NO SMOKE........THEN SMOKE ON STARTUP..........THEN LATER LIGHT SMOKING ALL THE TIME EXPECIALLY AT WOT AND USING QUITE A BIT OF OIL. OIL GETTING DIRTY LOOKING TOO. REPLACED THE TURBO AND NO MORE OIL OR SMOKE PROBLEMS. I'M JUST SUGGESTING THIS MAY BE YOUR PROBLEM. MY STOCK HEADS HAVE 230,000 MILES ON THEM AND ALL I'VE EVER DONE IS REPLACE THE SPRINGS AND SEALS. WE LIKE TO BLAME SMOKING ON VALVE SEALS AND SUCH BUT THE ONLY SMOKING PROBLEMS I'VE HAD WAS DUE TO THE TURBO.

 

[Terbro]

John -

But was is leaking oil into the exhaust or the intake?

 

[Not Avg 6]

My car seemed to smoke alot more also after installing GN1's, after the first 100 miles. I replaced the 5 year old ATR pvc valve with a stock GM piece and added the GM sealant tabs for insurance. Drove the car for about a half hour and no more smoking problem. The more I drive it the better it seems. Little smoke on start up and can't really notice any at while driving, idling, or WOT. Just the normal amount that I probably should get with 60k.

 

[Terbro]

I did replace the PVC valve a few weeks ago...hoping that was it. No change, though. I did have my T+ settings off, and had the idle at 14% lean, which was way too much. I adjusted it to 6% lean at idle, and now have WOT readings on the SM of 730-820 (short blasts). They were in the 600s before (yikes!). I've noticed two things: It doesn't smoke at all after warm (idle or revving) and probably only normal smoke on WOT accelleration. The BL readings are 100 at idle.

I do have to say that it's running BF'n strong though! I'm able to run 20-22 psi boost w/95 octane with less than 3º knock.

TK

 

[Red Regal T]

Originally posted by Terbro
John -

But was is leaking oil into the exhaust or the intake?

OIL WAS COMING THROUGH THE INTERCOOLER UP INTO THE THROTTLE BODY. AGAIN, I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM. JUST MY EXPERIENCE WHEN ALL OF A SUDDEN I'D NOTICE I HAD A WORSENING SMOKING PROBLEM.

 

[Terbro]

I pulled the inlet tube to the throttle body. The TB couldn't look cleaner. But yes, that might have been it...had to check.

 

[ThikStik]

Terbro,
Did your new motor sit in humidity for any time? Its possible the oil rings are seized. Thus losing oil control but not compression on the bad cyl's. Seems like driving would help it if it were this.

 

[Terbro]

Originally posted by rick cain
Terbro,
Did your new motor sit in humidity for any time? Its possible the oil rings are seized. Thus losing oil control but not compression on the bad cyl's. Seems like driving would help it if it were this.

Not since I've owned it.

 

[ThikStik]

But do you know that previously to you owning it that it hadnt sat up? Have you seen the rings?

 

[Terbro]

Originally posted by rick cain
But do you know that previously to you owning it that it hadnt sat up? Have you seen the rings?

Well, with 6K original miles, you kind of think it'd have to of...sat up.

TK

 

[TurboBuickSix]

Symptoms sound like rings to me as well,try the leakdown if you did'nt already do it.