Spark Knock

[84HAGN]

Ok here we go to the GN out today 55 degree weather pulled out on the road and ran great for about 5 mins now when i nail it knock gauge goes directly to red at about 13lbs of boost and i can hear the undeniable spark knocking
fuel pressure is set at 44 line off and boost at 13lbs freash tank of 93 new fuel filter still got lots of knock like 20 degrees worth o2s are at 800 ish wot
now this where it gets weird rideing down the road at 55 mph and nail it only get about 1 to 2 degress knock at 13lbs and pulls hard but from a standing start as soon as boost starts to build around 13lbs i can hear the knock and the gauge goes red is the timing in the chip different from a stop and rolling
and how can i tell how much timing is in the chip one of erics chips car runs fine except for tons of knock under higher boost than say around 8 to 9 lbs
anybody got any ideas i have been fight knock issues forever and just assumed because of summertime heat but now its nice and cold and knocking just as bad if not worse
I can see black smoke under hard accel its not pouring out just a sign of it so
i dont think i got a lean condition and the fuel pressure rises with the boost
perfectly

 

[Jerryl]

I have the same car and very similar set-up with similar KR issues.
What converter are you running?
Must be the T-tops since other do not seem to have these issues.

 

[84HAGN]

running stock converter getting ready to pull motor for rebuild
hey did you ever get your interior redone i am still looking for the material
Mike

 

[Jerryl]

....... hey did you ever get your interior redone i am still looking for the material .......

Not "yet". Did not find the exact material but found something close at the upholstery shop. Still keeping my eye out for the OEM material. What is your location?

Edit:
With a stock set-up and 93 Octane (??) you should not expect more than 13 PSi boost.

 

[84HAGN]

The eastern shore of Maryland

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Back to the knock issue. I would check to make sure nothing is banging on the frame. I had to chase down a knock problem and it turned out to be the downpipe hitting the frame. Bad motor mounts can be the problem. This allows the downpipe to hit the frame. Keep us posted. Brad

(P.S-Finally finished my car today-ramchargers, kill switch, battery disconnect and the final tune. Running 20 lbs boost on 93 octane with zero knock)

 

[84HAGN]

thanks brad but its not a mechanical issue as i can hear the detonation
but thaks anyways

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Mike- Post your Turbolink numbers at idle, in park, car warmed up. This is where we have to start. Thanks- Brad

 

[racemybuick]

maryland huh??? ARE YOU IN MAGNA????? COming to ATCO this weekend??

Love to see this car sometime!! I am in north jersey, but love to drive around!!

John

 

[Jerryl]

Please take note of EACH listing below and read carefully.
I KNOW first hand how frustrating this is.

Seems like you get more KR when she gets warm/hot. What thermostat and radiator are you running and what is the temp it it running at? This ONE issue you need to verify. There are other issues but, coolant temps will make a big difference.

Make SURE your MAF is reading correctly and you MPH is close.
Zip tie ALL lines as well.

Timing is written on the chip. Contact TT if you can not read it. He is awesome and has all the data if you purchased the chip from him.

Verify your voltage under load. Make sure it does not drop off.
Verify your grounds if you suspect some issues here.

Look at your plugs. What color are they, what type and what gap?

What shape are you plug wires in?

What about PCV, turbo seals, blowby?

 

[84HAGN]

ok will drag the laptop back out but seems like it records more garbage frames than good ones and yess jerryl spark knocks more when hot
was going down that road a while back so i put a f body rad in with electric fan 160 thermostat rarly see over 180 temps now have replaced every vacum line and zip tied all of them have 20 in of vacum idleing in park and about 15-16 idling in gear have 15-20 psi of oil press in gear ideling compression is 130
on all cylinders with about 5 psi diff on a few has a new 204/212 cam ,lifters ,and springs tried three diff ecms have tried the translator on a bunch of diff settings always the same sometimes knock sometimes not
have tried different ls1 maf no change new plug wires, new plugs, new coil, new ignition module etc. it is extremely frustrating as it does not seem to be a consistant problem and everytime i change something it seems to work but then the knock starts again have verified fuel pressur about a million times and always good i will be pulling the engine in a couple of weeks for overhaul and thinking about redoing all the damn wires .
Jerryl have gotten your knock free yet?

 

[84HAGN]

MAGNA???? whats that

 

[Jerryl]

......... Jerryl have gotten your knock free yet?

Nope
Only hope left is the carbon I found in the cylinders during the HG change, although it explains nothing on the KR from a stop. It is my only hope left.
I have talked to ALL the experts and no one knows why, and YES, I had DS files. Like I said, "It's Gotta be the T-Tops"

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

What are the following reading at idle in park-AF,TPS,BLM,IAC? Brad- Knock can be eliminated but is takes time and tuning. I am at 20LBS boost with no knock using the Razor Kit on 93 octane.

 

[84HAGN]

hey Brad here ya go:
AF 5
blm 129
tps .45
iac 24
hope that helps because i can find nothing wrong with those numbers

 

[84HAGN]

well is 13lbs of boost to much to expect should i turn it down even more
the chip has no timing on it just 13 to 15 lbs of boost written on it
i sent some files to eric a while back and he saw nothing wrong if i recall correctly
the only thing that has me baffled is the fact that one run she runs fine with minimal knock and the next I can here the pinging and the gauge jumps into the red .
If i understand correctly the chip is what sets the timing and during the runs with and without knock according to turbolink there is no differnce in readings except retard as high as 20 degrees when it knocks
I mean man this is nuts lets see there is no drop on fuel pressure no drop in voltage maf doesnt drop out no clitches that i can see in turbolink but yet one run i get about .5 degrees of retard the next 20 degrees
I checked and triple checked all wires,sensors, grounds,hoses I have even ohmed out all the wires going to the ecm checked every connection every wire I have replaced all associated parts(well actually all ignition parts have been replaced) hell i went to the ls1 and translator due to MAF issues and still here I am.
I have been a mechanic for almost 25 years and have never lost to a car before ( well there was the one Cadillac but that ended up going back to the factory harness was AFU)
and i will beat this POS if i have rip every wire out and put back with new
just had to vent
Thanks
Mike

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

Those numbers are just fine. Next, drive the car around and see how th BLM changes. It should stay around 128. Let me know. We are tracking to see if the fuel pressure is correct. Thanks- Brad

 

[Jerryl]

well is 13lbs of boost to much to expect should i turn it down even more
the chip has no timing on it just 13 to 15 lbs of boost written on it
i sent some files to eric a while back and he saw nothing wrong if i recall correctly
the only thing that has me baffled is the fact that one run she runs fine with minimal knock and the next I can here the pinging and the gauge jumps into the red .
If i understand correctly the chip is what sets the timing and during the runs with and without knock according to turbolink there is no differnce in readings except retard as high as 20 degrees when it knocks
I mean man this is nuts lets see there is no drop on fuel pressure no drop in voltage maf doesnt drop out no clitches that i can see in turbolink but yet one run i get about .5 degrees of retard the next 20 degrees
I checked and triple checked all wires,sensors, grounds,hoses I have even ohmed out all the wires going to the ecm checked every connection every wire I have replaced all associated parts(well actually all ignition parts have been replaced) hell i went to the ls1 and translator due to MAF issues and still here I am.
I have been a mechanic for almost 25 years and have never lost to a car before ( well there was the one Cadillac but that ended up going back to the factory harness was AFU)
and i will beat this POS if i have rip every wire out and put back with new
just had to vent ........

Almost seemed as if "I" was writing this. LOL
Kinda funny.
The way I see it, "when" you find the problem, you will be setting a few records. If I find ANYTHING, I will let you know.

 

[BRAD_PADGETT]

While you are checking the driving BLM also do the following. Really rev up the engine in park on the driveway. There should not be any knock at all. If there is, somthing is banging on the frame and the knock sensor hears it. Brad

 

[84HAGN]

well Jeryl the only thing i can think is the is a wire somewhere that is getting hot a screwing everthing up because i have checked everything else so when my engine comes out i will rebuild the entire wireing system \
Can you hear yours when it knocks or is it just showing knock on the gauge?