Stage 2 head valve angle?

[postal]

Looks like I'm going with Diamond pistons instead of J&E. On the order form it asks what the valve angle is. Some one told me they think the stage 2 heads are a 10 degree head.

Jason

 

[Mac in SD]

Diamond made a lot of S2 pistons in the day. I would think they'd have that info on file.

Also, check Muscle Motorsports - they've got a bunch of diamond pistons for 3.8 S2's. (Unless you're building a 4.1)

 

[Big Stu]

At the risk of sounding completely ignorant... aren't s2 heads an 18 degree head? Where's john wilde when ya need him?

 

[John Wilde]

10 to 12* from memory, let me check.

Damn I packed my motorsports book already!

 

[John Wilde]

From Chapman Racing Heads.
Buick V6 R/M
Intake Port Volume: 247cc
Exaust Port Volume
Chamber Volume 40.5cc
Valve sizes and Lengths
Intake Valve 2.100 x 5.540
Exhaust Valve 1.625 x 5.560
Flow Figures @28"
Intake Exhaust
.100 68 53
.200 145 113
.300 221 174
.400 281 213
.500 321 229
.600 336 241
.700 341 247

YES 10* VALVE ANGLE
Here is a good website!!!!

http://www.johnthornton.com/catalog/143-147.pdf

 

[postal]

Thanks for the info guys.

Man the flow numbers on stage 2 heads would turn a SBC guy green with envy! To have a bore thats close to 4" even and have those kind of flow numbers.......WOW!

There are issues that come up when you go to stage 2 heads. Alot of the turbo Buick guys dont want to mess with them. If these where heads for a SBC guys would pay a ton of money for them and jump through all the hoops. Why don't more Buick guys run stage heads.

Jason

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by postal
Thanks for the info guys.

Man the flow numbers on stage 2 heads would turn a SBC guy green with envy! To have a bore thats close to 4" even and have those kind of flow numbers.......WOW!

There are issues that come up when you go to stage 2 heads. Alot of the turbo Buick guys dont want to mess with them. If these where heads for a SBC guys would pay a ton of money for them and jump through all the hoops. Why don't more Buick guys run stage heads.

Jason

There seems to be the thought that they don't make a good street head.
Me, I believe they can be made to run good on the street. And when I get the money to get this motor put together I'll find out.
I've got friends that are running SII heads on the street and tell me they work just fine.
Besides, if they get too popular, the prices might go back up.
I love the fact that I got a BEAUTIFUL pair for only $400 (no valves or valve hardware), and that included a set of T&D's.
Bare, ported heads with guides and seats, but no other hardware can be had for that kind of money pretty easilly.

 

[Mac in SD]

Yes, they run GREAT on the street. Just be sure you don't over-cam them considering what converter, turbo, etc.

I'm running an Art Carr 3400 NLU and a T-76 BB, with a 222/218 hyd.roller, and bottom end is just nuts. I could have gone up a little on the cam after all, I think, but it's fun the way it is. Also, run 9 or 9.5 CR. It's just so friggin' cool to have a 400 HP motor before you throw any boost at it. Very strong.

Another thing is, with a 3-row Desert Cooler-type recored stock radiator, it runs really too cool with at 160 T-stat. I'm going up to a 180, pretty soon.

 

[postal]

I think alot of people worry about the port size being to big for the street. The big ports should make the flow in the heads lazy and adversely effect the power. What has to be factored in is the extremely high flow rate of the heads. The heads flow so much air that the air has strong velocity even in those huge ports.

Ask Ron Tarabori about coming out of the corners in his roundy round car. His said they don't give the Buick V6 guys a weight break any more. He has to run heads up with the V8 boys. He wouldn't be able to do that if his car was soft coming out of the corners.

Jason

 

[S2V6RACER]

Originally posted by postal
Thanks for the info guys.

Man the flow numbers on stage 2 heads would turn a SBC guy green with envy! To have a bore thats close to 4" even and have those kind of flow numbers.......WOW!

There are issues that come up when you go to stage 2 heads. Alot of the turbo Buick guys dont want to mess with them. If these where heads for a SBC guys would pay a ton of money for them and jump through all the hoops. Why don't more Buick guys run stage heads.

Jason

I would bet that if the aluminum stock style heads would have not been improved at the point in history that they were, you would not be asking your question. There were a few guys that made the change to S2 heads because of failures of the GN-1 heads back in the day. The GN-1's can power a car into the mid 8's and that seems to be good enough power for most.

 

[chevyII]

can you run a stage head on a 3.8L bore? Also anyone try stage heads with the stock stroke on the street? Ive heard theres flow isssues with the current available headers- ATR????

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by chevyII
can you run a stage head on a 3.8L bore? Also anyone try stage heads with the stock stroke on the street? Ive heard theres flow isssues with the current available headers- ATR????

I can't imagine there being any problem, as long as you've got a 14 bolt head pattern and a good set of SII studs.
My SII block is a 3.8 (or so).

 

[chevyII]

I wasn't sure the huge valves would clear the small bore. Im in the middle of a build. And seeing the prices for full port GN1's made me think. I thought Id read somwhere that the ATR primaries were small or to restrictive and to look for old precision pipes?

 

[Mac in SD]

Originally posted by chevyII
I wasn't sure the huge valves would clear the small bore. Im in the middle of a build. And seeing the prices for full port GN1's made me think. I thought Id read somwhere that the ATR primaries were small or to restrictive and to look for old precision pipes?

Well, the S2 heads come configured for a 2.02.1.60 valve combo. But most used heads have bigger valves (mine are 2.125/1.625), so I would check for 3.8 bore clearance with used heads.

Re: the ATR primaries, I'm assuming you mean headers, and the ATR's are 1 7/8, which is pretty big. The restrictive part of the ATR's is the primary from the #2 exhaust, which is a really tight bend to the collector. And the crossover pipe alignment sucks. But I guess it depends how deep your pockets are. Precision (not available anymore, I think), Kooks, and probably others are definitely better, but at more than twice the price. If I were a rich man...

 

[postal]

I guess it depends how deep your pockets are. Precision (not available anymore, I think), Kooks, and probably others are definitely better, but at more than twice the price. If I were a rich man...

My friend and I went in 50/50 on a lincoln TIG welder. I'll be making our headers and converting the intakes to EFI. I have never done anything like this before, I hope I'm not in over my head.

Jason

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I just built my first set of headers for my turbo V8 project. The headers weren't that bad. Just takes some patience and don't get in a hurry. It took me about 3 weeks working in my spare time to get them and the crossover done.

The intake is another story. I have seen someone try and weld the bung to an intake with a 180 TIG and it's not anywhere near big enough for the job. The shop in town that does the intakes has a large TIG like the water cooled 375. You can do it without the water it just takes longer because of the heat.

 

[TurboDave]

Originally posted by Mac in SD
Well, the S2 heads come configured for a 2.02.1.60 valve combo. But most used heads have bigger valves (mine are 2.125/1.625), so I would check for 3.8 bore clearance with used heads.

Re: the ATR primaries, I'm assuming you mean headers, and the ATR's are 1 7/8, which is pretty big. The restrictive part of the ATR's is the primary from the #2 exhaust, which is a really tight bend to the collector. And the crossover pipe alignment sucks. But I guess it depends how deep your pockets are. Precision (not available anymore, I think), Kooks, and probably others are definitely better, but at more than twice the price. If I were a rich man...

Well, I haven't figured out how to measure the valve seats with any accuracy to see what valves they'll be needing. I'll assume for now they're 2.08/1.65's or so, and If I have to I can "clearance" these sleeves If I have to. They'll be bored to 3.830. Even if they take 2.12/1.62, that's still only about 3.75 + the clearance between the (which on my heads is MINIMAL), the sleeves can still be "clearanced" easillly, since they're "dry" sleeves.

 

[KendallF]

Originally posted by Dusty Bradford
I just built my first set of headers for my turbo V8 project. The headers weren't that bad. Just takes some patience and don't get in a hurry. It took me about 3 weeks working in my spare time to get them and the crossover done.

The intake is another story. I have seen someone try and weld the bung to an intake with a 180 TIG and it's not anywhere near big enough for the job. The shop in town that does the intakes has a large TIG like the water cooled 375. You can do it without the water it just takes longer because of the heat.

I will second that...I did the tunnel ram at a school with a big 375 Lincoln. I did a Hemi intake for Chuck Leeper and my buddy Tracy Grimm welded it with a 175. He had to preheat it with a propane torch to get it going.

 

[n20junkie]

do alot of tig work, i just got a new millermatic 250 with the nice spool gun, i am going to try using it for bungs on intakes, i want to do some sbc intakes on the side and its tough to make money, and to take the time to tig all of the bungs in cuts into the profit margin, hopefully the 350 amp mig welder can weld the bungs in without preheating, time will tell.
Grant

 

[postal]

Man you guys are confusing me. I have a Lincoln Precision TIG 185. I have been doing alot of practice welding on a stock intake. I usually start at 160 amps and work down to about 140. The inside of the runners looks like the manifold has the mumps from where the aluminum was melted through.

Last night I was doing a bunch of welding on a pair of stock intercoolers. Around the 150 amp range the filler rod and the weld pool looked like it was laying down into the work nicely. I'm sure you guys know alot more about welding than me. Is there some thing I should be watching for to make sure I'm making a strong weld and not a fake one?

Jason